Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade

[FlatAssembler]

I thought that was not even up to debate. There have been at least fifteen different studies concluding that:
There are around 400'000 gun crimes per year in the US, so there are at least 2 times as many defensive gun uses.

This is from your link (you should probably have read the entire thing):

Kleck’s statistics imply that defensive gun uses outnumber crimes committed with guns by a ratio of about 3:1.

Boru

What's your point?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

^That it’s simply insupportable that defensive gun use outnumbers gun crimes in the US, as outlined earlier.

Boru

[FlatAssembler]

^That it’s simply insupportable that defensive gun use outnumbers gun crimes in the US, as outlined earlier.

Boru

It's supported by fifteen different studies, that used different methodology but arrived at the numbers of defensive gun uses of the same order of magnitude. And even if all those studies are somehow a huge overestimate, gun control can still kill more people than it saves because (and this cannot be stressed enough) gun control affects law-abiding citizens much more than it affects violent criminals. Gun control will not take away guns from criminals any more than the war on drugs takes away marihuana from drug abusers. In the age of 3D printing, manufacturing guns illegally is just as easy as manufacturing marihuana illegally.

Also, if you think banning automatics and semi-automatics will stop mass shootings... Do you think that there used to be no mass shootings before automatics and semi-automatics were invented? As far as I know, mass shootings were more common in the beginning of the 19th century than they are today.

[arewethereyet]

^That it’s simply insupportable that defensive gun use outnumbers gun crimes in the US, as outlined earlier.

Boru

It's supported by fifteen different studies, that used different methodology but arrived at the numbers of defensive gun uses of the same order of magnitude. And even if all those studies are somehow a huge overestimate, gun control can still kill more people than it saves because (and this cannot be stressed enough) gun control affects law-abiding citizens much more than it affects violent criminals. Gun control will not take away guns from criminals any more than the war on drugs takes away marihuana from drug abusers. In the age of 3D printing, manufacturing guns illegally is just as easy as manufacturing marihuana illegally.

Also, if you think banning automatics and semi-automatics will stop mass shootings... Do you think that there used to be no mass shootings before automatics and semi-automatics were invented? As far as I know, mass shootings were more common in the beginning of the 19th century than they are today.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

The Story of the First Mass Shooting in U.S. History | History| Smithsonian Magazine

The Story of the First Mass Shooting in U.S. History

On Labor Day, 1949, Howard Unruh decided to go to the movies. He left his Camden, New Jersey, apartment and headed to the Family Theatre in downtown Philadelphia. On the bill that night was a double feature, the double-crossing gangster movie I Cheated the Law and The Lady Gambles, in which Barbara Stanwyck plays a poker-and-dice-game addict. Unruh, however, wasn’t interested in the pictures. He was supposed to meet a man with whom he’d been having a weeks-long affair.

[The Grand Nudger]

If the numbers held...which they won't, then the vast majority of reported dgus must actually be misreported criminal acts, themselves. That and/or the us is a lawless hellhole with even more gun crime than we think we have in addition to the citizenry being forced to fend for itself. Neither of these propositions are winners if the question is "should we do something about guns"?

@arewethereyet

Psh, there have been mass shootings since the country's inception. We used to call them lynchings. There have been mass shooters at schools since July 26 1764.

[arewethereyet]

I think it's been proven that FlatAss doesn't know what he's taking about and neither do his 'experts'.

[arewethereyet]

If the numbers held...which they won't, then the vast majority of reported dgus must actually be misreported criminal acts, themselves.  That and/or the us is a lawless hellhole with even more gun crime than we think we have in addition to the citizenry being forced to fend for itself.  Neither of these propositions are winners if the question is "should we do something about guns"?

@arewethereyet

Psh, there have been mass shootings since the country's inception.  We used to call them lynchings.  There have been mass shooters at schools since July 26 1764.

Depends upon your definition of mass shootings.  I give the Smithsonian a fair amount of credibility.

[The Grand Nudger]

I guarantee you we could find a mass shooting in any american century to fit any given definition. Plenty of them are probably on display at the smithsonian.

Keep that in mind the next time someone swears up and down that muskets or breach loaders or shotguns would be safer. We did some of our best work with those weapons.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

^That it’s simply insupportable that defensive gun use outnumbers gun crimes in the US, as outlined earlier.

Boru

It's supported by fifteen different studies, that used different methodology but arrived at the numbers of defensive gun uses of the same order of magnitude. And even if all those studies are somehow a huge overestimate, gun control can still kill more people than it saves because (and this cannot be stressed enough) gun control affects law-abiding citizens much more than it affects violent criminals. Gun control will not take away guns from criminals any more than the war on drugs takes away marihuana from drug abusers. In the age of 3D printing, manufacturing guns illegally is just as easy as manufacturing marihuana illegally.

Also, if you think banning automatics and semi-automatics will stop mass shootings... Do you think that there used to be no mass shootings before automatics and semi-automatics were invented? As far as I know, mass shootings were more common in the beginning of the 19th century than they are today.

When have you EVER heard me suggest that semiautomatics and automatics (or any other firearm for that matter) should be banned?

I can’t keep having this same conversation.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Mass shootings were pretty common in the beginning of the 19th century peaking in the beginning of the 20th, that's true. At least until recently. By the thirties the us had to clamp down hard on automatic and semiautomatic weapons. The quickest time-to-crime type of firearm to this day debuted in 1910. The second and third both came on the scene by the 1860's.