[Serious] Opinions on paganism?

[A. Secular Human]

Some pagans are atheists, but most believe in divine beings.
Some pagans are physicalists/materialists but most believe in the supernatural.

I think belief in either deities or the supernatural is most likely erroneous, and that is an issue for me.  I'd be more sympathetic towards agnostic or atheistic paganism.

Other than that, the term 'paganism' is very broad and can encompass a huge range of beliefs/ religions which can vary enormously in detail.  Some branches have ethical issues which bother me, like the neo-nazi connections of certain kinds of wodenism, or those forms that have animal sacrifice or whatever.

 Agnosticism and atheism are not an either-or proposition.

Gnosticism is about knowledge.  Atheism is about belief.  They are not on a spectrum (together) about god belief.

Think of "agnostic" as a adjective to describe the theistic position.  For example, I'm an agnostic atheist...I have no knowledge of gods, and I lack belief in them.

I'm also agnostic about brain surgery...I have no knowledge about it, either.

YMMV.

[Anomalocaris]

Some varieties of paganism don’t require interventionist supernatural forces, but view the non-natural world as existing side-by-side with the natural one (the pages of a book analogy). In these views, supernatural forces are not interventionist, but immanent. 

Boru

Even more to the point, nature intervenes, and the sacred is immanent.  Gods, even for those who believe in them, tend not to be supernatural.  A god isn't over nature or in nature and beyond nature.  It -is- nature.  When a god blows, that's the wind at work.

if god was nature then there is no need to or purpose in talking to it, or practice any separate ritual to venerate it or appease it beyond normal productive interaction with it.   The reason why it is called god and not nature is because there is a supposition of emotionally sensitive agent beyond the tangible nature.

I doubt “you should plant a tree for every one you cut down” would have been considered pagan even by the church.   it is when you have to make an offering to a tree spirit that might be considered pagan.

[The Grand Nudger]

The christers do think that climate change and climate activism is a pagan religion. They're pretty sure "saving the earth" was the gateway drug that the secular conspiracy used to groom their children into witchcraft and satanism. It's banapants, but it's informed by a credible underlying fear. That natural religions are vicous competition for their childrens hearts and minds. As OI mentioned before, their demographics are cratering and paganism keeps blipping in and out as the fastest growing religion for usians. If captain planet saw jesus choke that fig tree, he'd have fucked him up.....with the power of heart, ofc - and we'd all cheer.

At any rate, sure, thinking of gods as personal and intervening is the definition of theism - and some pagans are theists and they'll see it that way. Others see nature as impersonal and intervening. Gods stand in for the sacred masculine, the sacred feminine. For a particular relationship we experience. They serve a ritual, ideological, or narrative purpose as a focal point for abstract and concrete ideas about the world and our interactions with it. On the other end, as far as you can get from theism, that everything we attributed to gods and the supernatural, both actions and the awe and reverence they've enjoyed, were misattributions of sacred nature.

It helps to keep in mind that superstition and religion are not interchangeable. All pagans are religious, not all pagans are superstitious.

[The Grand Nudger]

I can give you a really solid timeframe on the point of no return, too. 2013-2015. There was a cultural debate within christendom about "the dominion verses". One side thought these should be the stewardship verses - and saw our climate crisis as an opportunity to express their own contemporary christian values. This isn't the first time this had been doiscussed and it wasn;t the last.....buuuuuut.....Unfortunately, in the us at least - the climate crisis is team blue - and christendom had thrown it's hat in with team red. Godless kenyan socialism lost that argument and twittler would go on to wreck the conservation state to the sound of glorious christian applause.

[Bucky Ball]

[The Grand Nudger]

[Kitan Etos]

Lots of people got interested due to the movie The Craft. Albeit, they were confusing witchcraft for paganism and neo-paganism and Wicca.

[The Grand Nudger]

To some extent, and especially at that time, they were interchangeable. A single publisher, Llewellyn, created that impression and market. They had a ready made stable of authors. Scott Cunningham, Silver Ravenwolf. Raymond fucking Buckland. If you wanted a side hustle worth serious coin, wiccan detritus on etsy goes for many times more than identical products...on etsy.

If you can sell mint to kroger or some lovesick teenager trying to fashion a love charm, pick the second option.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Pagans are serious.

[Kitan Etos]

To some extent, and especially at that time, they were interchangeable. A single publisher, Llewellyn, created that impression and market. They had a ready made stable of authors. Scott Cunningham, Silver Ravenwolf. Raymond fucking Buckland. If you wanted a side hustle worth serious coin, wiccan detritus on etsy goes for many times more than identical products...on etsy.

If you can sell mint to kroger or some lovesick teenager trying to fashion a love charm, pick the second option.

I bought Cunningham's solitary practitioner book.

I knew a girl in a D.C. college who was a fan of Ravenwolf. She ended up giving the book to me, but I never read it.