The Official "Damned Trump" Thread: Phase II

[emjay]

Oh I could never leave lady liberty alone with her abusers.[...]

I wouldn't doubt it for a second... not like it needs saying, but America's lucky to have you and people like you

[Thumpalumpacus]

Two NATO members have nukes enough to devastate Russia. No NATO member can veto another's going to the aid of third member. America can sit it out, but other NATO members have the capabilities to defend against a Russian military that has been denuded in Ukraine.

That's reassuring. Obviously I don't know enough about it so thanks for the education. So you don't think there's any need for a separate European defence force? I'm pretty sure the idea has been floated at times in the past.

Were I European, I'd consider resigning from NATO -- it's a one years' notice -- and then when that year is up, or even before, establishing a Eurocentric defense structure.

In the meantime I'd limit Trumpian America's access to intel and European planning, because it's plain now that the Trump Administration is a Putin puppet.

I hate to write this, given that I've not only sworn my country's oath but also have served under NATO orders, and it's an alliance I both cherish and feel has been a net-positive to peace and stability. But if I were in London or Paris or Berlin, I would push for a European alliance that doesn't look to a clearly fickle America for security.

[emjay]

That's reassuring. Obviously I don't know enough about it so thanks for the education. So you don't think there's any need for a separate European defence force? I'm pretty sure the idea has been floated at times in the past.

Were I European, I'd consider resigning from NATO -- it's a one years' notice -- and then when that year is up, or even before, establishing a Eurocentric defense structure.

In the meantime I'd limit Trumpian America's access to intel and European planning, because it's plain now that the Trump Administration is a Putin puppet.

I hate to write this, given that I've not only sworn my country's oath but also have served under NATO orders, and it's an alliance I both cherish and feel has been a net-positive to peace and stability. But if I were in London or Paris or Berlin, I would push for a European alliance that doesn't look to a clearly fickle America for security.

Wow, that's dire... thank you for your candour. NATO was great when everyone was in it wholeheartedly, so don't blame yourself for feeling bad about it now... noone could have foreseen the possibility that one of its strongest founders and backbones would decide to do a complete 180 and turn against it, assuming that's probably what's going to happen, but hoping it's not.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Were I European, I'd consider resigning from NATO -- it's a one years' notice -- and then when that year is up, or even before, establishing a Eurocentric defense structure.

In the meantime I'd limit Trumpian America's access to intel and European planning, because it's plain now that the Trump Administration is a Putin puppet.

I hate to write this, given that I've not only sworn my country's oath but also have served under NATO orders, and it's an alliance I both cherish and feel has been a net-positive to peace and stability. But if I were in London or Paris or Berlin, I would push for a European alliance that doesn't look to a clearly fickle America for security.

Wow, that's dire... thank you for your candour. NATO was great when everyone was in it wholeheartedly, so don't blame yourself for feeling bad about it now... noone could have foreseen the possibility that one of its strongest founders and backbones would decide to do a complete 180 and turn against it, assuming that's probably what's going to happen, but hoping it's not.

I think that this is where Europe resumes leadership of the free world. I confess fear that they may not be able to do it against both Russia and China. They can certainly defend themselves against Russia, but there's a lot of people in Asia who are going to feel this American abdication much more directly.

[Angrboda]

[Nanny]

Donald Trump stopped learning in middle school. He sees every interaction as zero sum. Nothing can be of mutual benefit. This is the man leading the United States: a simpleton.

[Mr Greene]

Even if Britain never rejoins the EU, I hope even Brexiteers would be open to us joining some sort of European military alliance... cos we're going to need it.

Problem is we'd need a politician with something resembling a backbone.
Labour specifically selected one without as having one would have meant purging either the Traditional Labour members or Momentum.
Tories seem to want to to jump into bed with Trump at this point, (Even Republicans are more critical of Trump than anything I've heard from the Tories).
The Liberals would need something resembling a plan to appear credible.

[Mr Greene]

Were I European, I'd consider resigning from NATO -- it's a one years' notice -- and then when that year is up, or even before, establishing a Eurocentric defense structure.

In the meantime I'd limit Trumpian America's access to intel and European planning, because it's plain now that the Trump Administration is a Putin puppet.

I hate to write this, given that I've not only sworn my country's oath but also have served under NATO orders, and it's an alliance I both cherish and feel has been a net-positive to peace and stability. But if I were in London or Paris or Berlin, I would push for a European alliance that doesn't look to a clearly fickle America for security.

Wow, that's dire... thank you for your candour. NATO was great when everyone was in it wholeheartedly, so don't blame yourself for feeling bad about it now... noone could have foreseen the possibility that one of its strongest founders and backbones would decide to do a complete 180 and turn against it, assuming that's probably what's going to happen, but hoping it's not.

Actually not true, the possibility of Washington not supporting NATO has been a factor in planning since 1980 when Reagan made the suggestion. That's why we upgraded from Polaris.
Obviously we have limited conventional capability without the US which means things would be more likely to move to the 'non-conventional' stage if anything does happen.

[emjay]

Even if Britain never rejoins the EU, I hope even Brexiteers would be open to us joining some sort of European military alliance... cos we're going to need it.

Problem is we'd need a politician with something resembling a backbone.
Labour specifically selected one without as having one would have meant purging either the Traditional Labour members or Momentum.
Tories seem to want to to jump into bed with Trump at this point, (Even Republicans are more critical of Trump than anything I've heard from the Tories).
The Liberals would need something resembling a plan to appear credible.

Well, I'm no fan of Keir Starmer, but maybe and hopefully this could even be the making of him... I don't envy any PM who has to navigate this situation, and maybe he will do it well. I'd be very surprised to find anyone supporting Trump atm, even Tories... certainly not some of my family, who are staunch Tories... and even Farage might have trouble justifying his love for Trump at this point. I'm very curious about that; the last time I saw him talking about Trump, when being asked about Trump claiming Zelenskyy started the war, he looked decidedly edgy and went on to to say not to take Trump literally (the last recourse of someone losing an argument)... and that was quite a while ago... so yeah, I'm very curious to see how he'd respond to these latest events.

[Mr Greene]

Problem is we'd need a politician with something resembling a backbone.
Labour specifically selected one without as having one would have meant purging either the Traditional Labour members or Momentum.
Tories seem to want to to jump into bed with Trump at this point, (Even Republicans are more critical of Trump than anything I've heard from the Tories).
The Liberals would need something resembling a plan to appear credible.

Well, I'm no fan of Keir Starmer, but maybe and hopefully this could even be the making of him... I don't envy any PM who has to navigate this situation, and maybe he will do it well. I'd be very surprised to find anyone supporting Trump atm, even Tories... certainly not some of my family, who are staunch Tories... and even Farage might have trouble justifying his love for Trump at this point. I'm very curious about that; the last time I saw him talking about Trump, when being asked about Trump claiming Zelenskyy started the war, he looked decidedly edgy and went on to to say not to take Trump literally (the last recourse of someone losing an argument)... and that was quite a while ago... so yeah, I'm very curious to see how he'd respond to these latest events.

It doesn't seem to stop Truss, though her grasp of reality looks as iffy as her idol's...