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(April 25, 2011 at 7:41 pm)RDK Wrote: If you would like to start at the very beginning, lets proceed with what you have to agree is our common source. No form of logic can be used unless some facts are established in order to prove a claim. We only know what we can perceive through the senses that we have. We have not (at least I am not aware of any other way) been given any special powers to determine the outcomes of our conclusions. We are stuck trying to reason with a limited ability to prove anything that we are perceiving. We have to establish common ground rules in order to communicate with any real simplicity or understanding. What is true? We are all asking ourselves what it all must mean, if we are seeking anyway. I don't think that anyone of you here are writing each other just to waste time. If agreeing to believe in nothing at all makes you content, I don't have a problem with that. But, if you are a seeker, you won't rest from trying to ask all the questions that you can to validate the belief system that you choose. From the time of your first breath on this planet, you had to trust that the second breath that you took would continue to give you that good warm feeling that you were given-life.You did not understand how those breaths worked to keep you alive. You just kept it up because it just didn't feel good any other way. Your belief system started that day. You trusted that the air supply would continue, and your faith was that it would.
If starting from birth is just another mind puzzle to solve, then maybe we should start from absolute zero. Did everything start from total blackness and nothingness, or was there some organized, (or even random) mass that got it all going? Either choice will yield the same solution. There could be multiple answers to any questions that follow. Multiple variables always yields a multi-choice possibility. I can not tell anyone an answer to anything. You will listen to someone for your answer, or you will concoct one of your own. Just follow me with some observations of my own. The concept of consciousness is interesting to consider. You look out into the blackness( or random mass etc.) and wonder where thinking ever came from. Somehow, this mass or blackness began to get organized. I know that I am concluding something here, but there needs to be some kind of groundbreaking going on to spawn all of creation. Does it make any sense, by looking at the beginning of inanimate particles floating around in the dark, that those non-conscious particles would begin to organize themselves into anything at all? Could it be that our (new concept) universe might just decide on its own to make itself some rules to follow?
No, that is impossible. Random junk just don't make organized junk. What rules make this junk become junk in the first place? Is it all just an accident? Or, is consciousness making it's first appearance? I am making a leap of faith here. I am conscious I think. Did it come from something that had no order at all, or is it behaving in an orderly kind of way? I can not prove anything! All I can do is try to figure out the source of thought from just a pile of space junk which must have had no thought of its own.
For me to conclude anything from any of these assertions is, of course, only a possibility, because we can't say with certainty from where, or how, did any of us get a start. If you don't care, it doesn't matter anyway. You're content perhaps with no answers at all. But, if the possibility of a conscious start is interesting, then try to prove if it is possible or not. Besides, if all of this thinking stuff is interesting, it could also be possibly true. Was thought the source of everything? Is it a fact that we think? You might believe that I am not. I must be existing in some other kind of realm which can have no simple answer at all. If you are sure that this is the case, then this story is over. We talk because there isn't anything else to do with our time.
If what I am proposing is true, you have some very interesting possibilities to consider. Do the thoughts that we think have a source that operates the same way that we do? Also, where do all of the garbage thoughts come from, or, why are they there. I am not going to get all biblical or anything. All of this is as provable as gravity if you bypass all of the junk that men have thrown out there.
(April 25, 2011 at 9:08 pm)RDK Wrote: Any of you who have explored religion have got to conclude that most of it is filled with death and deastruction. It really does appear that god is not taking good care of business. The scriptures, from whatever source, are teaching about a creator who seems to know everything(including the future) but gets destructive when his people don't behave. Hey Johnny, Billy is not listening to me. Here is a knife. Go kill him because he is bad. If you don't , I will kill you too! What kind of sense does this make? I f you ask your typical Christian guy about this, he will run away from you at full speed shouting devil, devil devil. I was an atheist before I became Christian. I suppose that is why I have more in common with you guys here than you might think. I have come to believe that God is a being of love. All the rest has to be part of a trial. What good God would plan everthing out in great detail only to later get angry at himself for making men his own way. I have learned that everything about our existence must have some good purpose in the end. When was the last time you talked to a believer person who openly admitted that there was a problem in his book. Do I live to kill or to live to love? Every one of you has a basic sense of what is right to do. We don't always choose to do what is right, and that is where our troubles begin. Of course, I am only speaking about conscience, that something which works in some people to remind them that they have done wrong. Do I believe that God doesn't care every time I watch another flood or earthquake? Many times it is not fair to watch innocent children die and a loving God is not stepping in to warn or fix the problem. You see, I have a major problem with a God who commands faulty people to kill each other, a sinner killing a sinner. If men have been influenced by something evil to believe wrongly about a loving God, why would it happen? God, you say you love us. What's up with all the crap. You have a whole world of people who can't find reason to follow you, and I can understand their side. I am not going to blame anyone for feeling the way that they do. None of you are any worse than the rest. God gave us each a logical mind to work things out. Folks, you are courageous for taking a stand against garbage. An intelligent creator would never get upset at us because we question. Why preach fear to us?
I grew up with an angry father. It was not easy to grow up in his house. I feel the same thing about an angry God. How could you ever learn to love from someone like that?
Yet, the question of evil remains, there seems to be more of that than anyone cares to admit. Should I believe that a caring God doesn't care that we are stuck here in all of this? I know that there is a very real reason why it is here. It's all part of simple logic and reasoning that can explain why it is around at all! And don't think it has any thing to do with the Adam and Eve story. Don't believe that anything that a couple could do would bring down evil as it was written to happen.
I know that it is easier to ignore all of this stuff and just call me crazy. I know that my personal experiences don't count when it comes to objective reasoning. That is why I know that God will still look favorably to you in the end. The experiences that have happened to me can only be shared if anything I say makes any sense to any of you. I did not come to you to tell you about heaven or hell or any of that. I wanted to let you know that ther is a physical reality that you may not have experienced yet. Good news is never a curse. Thanks for your time.
(April 25, 2011 at 10:13 pm)RDK Wrote: I don't want to spend a lot of time trying to convince you of something that you have never experienced before. I hear some of you saying, finally, I don't want to hear any more. That's O.K., scan to the next thread. I don't know if any of you have dealt with witchcraft power. It is a very real and powerful force when used against someone. I thought it was cool to investigate this stuff. It is not fun and games. The results can be deadly. I met a girl who used this power to do miraculous things that I couldn't explain with any kind of logic at the time. I'll share more about that if anybody wants. That was physical proof to me that there is a kind of power that people can possess. Although I do not recommend that anybody tries to do this themselves, you have to know that it is real. Some things are laughable, but the things that I experienced first hand in this physical world were too much to endure alone. There is an entity which works against those who want to do right. This being is working against us in this world to make us believe that a loving God is bad. It is that little voice or idea that comes into your head to entice you to do things that you really don't want to do. Any of you who have researched voodoo, witchcraft, devil worship, etc. have got to wonder if any of it is true. This power is responsible for the evil things in this world.
I have gone and gotten all spiritual again. I only mention this because someone wanted a piece of factual information that they can prove for themselves if they want. There are a lot of physical manifestations that can happen by connecting with either side on spirit things. There is only proof to you if you pursue to understand these. There are many things in this world that you can do to influence this world, and not all of them are so blatant as witchcraft power.
I understand that I have stepped into the imaginary for most of you. I risk making myself appear as a fool to you to make a point. Reality is not only what you can measure. By only accepting what you can see, you limit yourself to the possibility of making spiritual connections. That's why I want to share all of this with you. You probably don't want to hear more, and I understand that. I just wanted to offer a new perspective to you. You can experience healings, visions, prophecies, miracles, and helpful contact if you want. Of course, its your choice.
Non of this makes me any better than any of you. I wanted to see somebody else benefit from all of the things that have happened to me, very real physical things. It's your choice if you think that what you have is enough. It may well be, and I wish you well.
Rarely has so much text been used to say so little.
April 26, 2011 at 8:44 am (This post was last modified: April 26, 2011 at 8:53 am by Justtristo.)
(April 25, 2011 at 5:35 pm)RDK Wrote: It's a shame that God has gotten such a bad rep because of the errors of man. So what if the bible tells us things which make no logical sense. There is conscience order to everything which exists.
RDK
Your god is pretty honest about the killing he has done in his "word", along with the reasons he gives for killing those people.
(April 25, 2011 at 10:13 pm)RDK Wrote: I met a girl who used this power to do miraculous things that I couldn't explain with any kind of logic at the time. I'll share more about that if anybody wants. That was physical proof to me that there is a kind of power that people can possess.
James Randi has a lot of money waiting for you, why don't you run along now & try to collect?
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
<--- one of Reverend Jeremiah's dingle berries is laughing hysterically at you right now.
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