Natural Selection Seems Insufficient

[awty]

This is all pretty simple...if one can't understand or explain something the answer is "Goddidit".

While I get people being a bit fearful that religion will stifle science, I think the point is overstated.

It's not like all science will come to an end if people start believing that God enacts gravity. 

There are plenty of areas of science to research and explore. Every year the world faces new problems crying out for scientific solutions.

Scientific solutions that you won't understand and therefore will claim Goddidit.

Are we done beating this horse yet?  Or, are there more domino references and tossing out the word 'facade'?

[Jal]

I think you're misunderstanding me. When I said all the so-called "forces" are God, I was speaking specifically of gravity, electricity, magnetism, electro-magnetism, nuclear forces. I was NOT saying, "Every impetus is God."  For example I've repeatedly said that my free will moves my body, for instance when I throw a punch.

Every particle in my body's movement is mediated by these forces.  There is no 'me' aside from God pushing particles around, the particles God is pushing around make up me.  I haven't misunderstood you, you misunderstood yourself.   Wherever free will resides, it is seperated from the particles of my body by a subatomic gap.  My will accomplishes nothing.  My will is impotent.  It is God reading my mind to determine whether I move my arm, or pull my daughter in the water.  If so, I will something, but God is wholly responsible for the doing.  My will is forever severed from every particle that makes up 'me'.  You seem to be oblivious to how matter actually works and live in a world where these subatomic gaps exist in some places but not others.  Not so.  It's subatomic gaps all the way down.  The world consists entirely of subatomic particles, seperated by subatomic gaps, and all of it inert save for the acts of God.

Knowing this, why should I feel responsible for anything my body does?  If it weren't for God co-conspiring with me, I would have done nothing.  Why not blame God?

Free will is impotent? You seem to be denying my fundamental axiom that free will is causal. At its core, matter must be self-propelling (by free will) because a First Mover of SOME KIND must exist. That's my axiom. Take it or leave it. You are free to leave it.  Tell me what YOUR first mover is. If you're happy to say, "I don't know," that's fine. Personally, I prefer to form a (tentative) opinion on many issues, one wway or the other.

[Angrboda]

Aren't the miracles why we should follow Christ.  You've made the resurrection nothing special.  Anybody could have resurrected, so who cares that Christ was the one he chose to resurrect.  That's no more miraculous than me blowing my nose.  God intervenes to cause both.

The resurrection is nothing special? Have you, or any of your friends, managed to emulate it?

How is Christ resurrecting any more special than me blowing my nose? It's all just God pushing shit around. None of it is in any way unique or special.

[Jal]

The resurrection is nothing special? Have you, or any of your friends, managed to emulate it?

How is Christ resurrecting any more special than me blowing my nose?   It's all just God pushing shit around.  None of it is in any way unique or special.

Again, if it's nothing special, arrange for a demonstration. Next time a friend or relative is on their deathbed, instruct him to resurrect and capture it on film.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is it possible that some people are closer to rocks than others in a world of innate consciousness by varying degree?

Call your boy Christ up. Tell him you’re gonna need video.

[Jal]

Is it possible that some people are closer to rocks than others in a world of innate consciousness by varying degree?

Differences in IQ, for example? Sure. I'd like to think that my assumptions to allow for such differences.

[Angrboda]

How is Christ resurrecting any more special than me blowing my nose?   It's all just God pushing shit around.  None of it is in any way unique or special.

Again, if it's nothing special, arrange for a demonstration. Next time a friend or relative is on their deathbed, instruct him to resurrect and capture it on film.

It's not me claiming that it's nothing special. It's you that's made it nothing special by making it indistinguishable from anything else that happens.

Man comes back from the dead? That's just Tuesday. God does similar things every day.

Here, let me spell it out for you. Death is the permanent cessation of life functions. So coming back means restoring those functions. But every inch, millimeter and hair of life function was already being arranged for by God in all beings. So what's different?

[Jal]

Again, if it's nothing special, arrange for a demonstration. Next time a friend or relative is on their deathbed, instruct him to resurrect and capture it on film.

It's not me claiming that it's nothing special.  It's you that's made it nothing special by making it indistinguishable from anything else that happens.

Man comes back from the dead?  That's just Tuesday.  God does similar things every day.

Yes, and He has become so good at it, by billions of years of practice,  that He manages to do it while SIMULTANEOUSLY managing 100 billion galaxies. THAT'S what we are supposed to praise Him for - that's why He merits our praise.  As I said, there is only one possible definition of merit/ meriting praise:

"Merit is a status achieved by freely choosing to labor/ suffer for a righteous cause, over an extended period of time."

He put in the  hard work. I'm sorry if you find that aspect disappointing.

[Angrboda]

It's not me claiming that it's nothing special.  It's you that's made it nothing special by making it indistinguishable from anything else that happens.

Man comes back from the dead?  That's just Tuesday.  God does similar things every day.

Yes, and He has become so good at it, by billions of years of practice,  that He manages to do it while SIMULTANEOUSLY managing 100 billion galaxies. THAT'S what we are supposed to praise Him for - that's why He merits our praise.  As I said, there is only one possible definition of merit/ meriting praise:

"Merit is a status achieved by freely choosing to labor/ suffer for a righteous cause, over an extended period of time."

He put in the  hard work. I'm sorry if you find that aspect disappointing.

Who decided that, you or God? If God, why does he get to do his own performance reviews? That seems inherently corrupt. If it's just you, well, fuck off.

[Angrboda]

Here's what I don't get. This god, being physical, is subject to all the laws of existence. He's no less a slave than I am. So why worship?