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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 26, 2011 at 10:51 pm
Those Bible verses indicate that God created both good and evil, and I see no problem with that. The Bible verses you've provided say nothing on whether God is just; they merely reassert the concept that God created everything, including evil. Your argument is a non-sequiter; how does having created evil alongside good degrade God's justice at all? It doesn't. There is a balance between good and evil, both of which God created. And isn't the sign of justice...
Oh yeah. A balance. 
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 27, 2011 at 1:30 am
(April 26, 2011 at 10:51 pm)Watson Wrote: Those Bible verses indicate that God created both good and evil, and I see no problem with that. The Bible verses you've provided say nothing on whether God is just; they merely reassert the concept that God created everything, including evil. Your argument is a non-sequiter; how does having created evil alongside good degrade God's justice at all? It doesn't. There is a balance between good and evil, both of which God created. And isn't the sign of justice...
Oh yeah. A balance.
So being evil is ok because god created it.
Fine, that makes sense.
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 27, 2011 at 2:15 am
(April 27, 2011 at 1:30 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So being evil is ok because god created it.
Being evil is not okay because you have an option of choosing between good and evil. And God expects you to be good. 
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 27, 2011 at 2:55 am
(April 27, 2011 at 2:15 am)Rayaan Wrote: (April 27, 2011 at 1:30 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So being evil is ok because god created it.
Being evil is not okay because you have an option of choosing between good and evil. And God expects you to be good.
No he doesn't...you can't get into heaven by being good rayaan?!?!?! You gotta be a bad arse bastard and then just say sorry the minute you find you are dying... After all god is a bad arse bastard and he likes the company
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 27, 2011 at 3:01 am
(This post was last modified: April 27, 2011 at 7:43 am by Captain Scarlet.)
(April 26, 2011 at 10:51 pm)Watson Wrote: Those Bible verses indicate that God created both good and evil, and I see no problem with that. The Bible verses you've provided say nothing on whether God is just; they merely reassert the concept that God created everything, including evil. Your argument is a non-sequiter; how does having created evil alongside good degrade God's justice at all? It doesn't. There is a balance between good and evil, both of which God created. And isn't the sign of justice...
Oh yeah. A balance. I agree this has nothing to do with justice and is a non-sequitor.
As for a balance I don't see it. We are told that at least the Christian concept of god is of a maximally good being, omnipotent and free (the Islamic and Jewish concepts I am less clear on). That is this god only ever chooses to do the best things possible, does it freely and can do whatever it isn't logically limited in doing. There are problems with this concept however:
1) there is no reason why ominpotence is trumped by being maximally good (it is just assumed), in other words if god were free and all powerful why couldn't he do evil (biblically it seems more consistent to assume he can indeed commit evil)
2) if god is perfectly free and also only ever able to choose to do good, why could he not bestow that on his creation/s. We apparently are free but can choose to do evil and god lets us! (at least if created in his image why don't we possess his characteristics?)
3) If god is compelled only ever to do good, why praise him for it?, he has no choice (like an unthinking machine)
4) Imagine a perfectly evil god who allows people to freely choose to do good? Most likely we could bootstrap such a diety into existence with as much logical consistency as the Christian concept and it would expalin just as much about our world (nowt!). So why would that be less valid tha the Christian concept?
The most likely explanation is that there is no such god with these properties
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 27, 2011 at 3:39 am
(April 27, 2011 at 2:15 am)Rayaan Wrote: (April 27, 2011 at 1:30 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So being evil is ok because god created it.
Being evil is not okay because you have an option of choosing between good and evil. And God expects you to be good.
No, god expects you to worship him, anything else is incidental.
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 27, 2011 at 7:55 am
(April 27, 2011 at 2:15 am)Rayaan Wrote: (April 27, 2011 at 1:30 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So being evil is ok because god created it.
Being evil is not okay because you have an option of choosing between good and evil. And God expects you to be good. The only part of the bible directly written by your diety is the 10 commandments. So important are these he got his own pen out. The first 4 of the 10 commandments are about god wanting us to obey and worhsip only him in his invisible form (probably because he doesn't exist  ) and about how to be nice to slaves and donkeys once a week.
Clearly his primary concern is being told he is great and that we are not too mean to slaves and donkeys, and not that we are good in his terms.
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 27, 2011 at 11:20 pm
A word like 'justice' becomes meaningless if it is defined that someone is always just no matter what.
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 28, 2011 at 3:33 am
To that person, yes, but not from the perspective of those capable of injustice.
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RE: Is God always "just"?
April 28, 2011 at 1:00 pm
(This post was last modified: April 28, 2011 at 1:01 pm by Ace Otana.)
Gotta take a snipe at this, it kinda flew by in front of me. Had to shoot it. 
Quote:And God expects you to be good.
God does not expect anything. Have you forgotten? He's all knowing. He knew long before he created you that you would do either good or bad, that's how he designed it.
Can't use the word 'expect' with god. Won't work because he's all knowing.
How are ya, Rayaan?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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