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Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
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 (May 11, 2011 at 11:54 am)tackattack Wrote: I guess honesty, forthrightness and open and honest questions (polemics / apologetics) weren't a part of your religious upbringing then. That's a real shame. My upbringing, no. People usually aren't taught to think for themselves in the South. This makes the indoctrination easier. 
That it does. Sorry to hear that.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari (May 11, 2011 at 12:08 pm)tackattack Wrote: That it does. Sorry to hear that. I might say further that if those things had been part of my upbringing, I probably would have become an unbeliever much earlier. I was not that much different rationally at 22 years old than 30. It was only from my own efforts that some "honest questions" surfaced. They just never occurred to me beforehand.
Or perhaps if your fundamental doctrine had been questioned earlier and answered sufficiently then you might still be a theist. Alas, we will never know.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari (May 11, 2011 at 1:19 pm)tackattack Wrote: Or perhaps if your fundamental doctrine had been questioned earlier and answered sufficiently then you might still be a theist. Alas, we will never know. I'm quite sure the doctrine was sound. I've been to almost every denomination of church and listened to all types of preachers, from more traditional pastors to contemporary types. Most were very good pastors with compelling, well-thought out messages. I've had personal conversations about these questions with believing friends and pastors. Yet believers always seem to insist that I haven't heard the "right" message or don't have a precise handle on the correct doctrine. That these answers are apparently so elusive to a person like me who, at one time, wanted to continue believing but simply could not, speaks volumes. Why are these answers to elusive? Why didn't the Holy Spirit provide a word or two of clarity to a person sincerely interested in understanding why a loving God would require the sacrifice of his son to atone for sins or why God created us in the first place if he knew beforehand that we would sin and become cursed?" It's profoundly illogical. 
The problem with God is that he has shitty P.R. He needs to come down from heaven and tell us in person what he wants and how he wants us to worship instead of speaking through his more wild-eyed & crazy followers.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
Frankly, I find understanding through faith to be in a large part about timing. Perhaps you had never had God reveal anything to you as you are supposing. Perhaps the person you were speaking to about these questions was using a logical answer as opposed to really helping you understand it in your heart and mind. Perhaps it just isn't your time to believe. I can't fault you for not believing without any evidence, as I don't fault a lot of atheists on here for their belief. As I do see evidence for me though, hopefully you can see where I see that as a denial of evidence. I can understand that you personally see no evidence for God, but are/were you looking? NVM, don't answer that. This isn't the time or place for that. Happy posting, I'm sorry you're having problems with your family. If you'd like an "inside opinion" feel free to ask.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari  Quote:Perhaps it just isn't your time to believe. Reasonable. Who knows, Rev may come down with a brain tumor which will cause him to hallucinate.  RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 12, 2011 at 8:14 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2011 at 9:01 pm by Zenith.)
RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 13, 2011 at 2:17 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2011 at 2:22 pm by everythingafter.)
(May 11, 2011 at 8:56 pm)tackattack Wrote: Frankly, I find understanding through faith to be in a large part about timing. Perhaps you had never had God reveal anything to you as you are supposing. My problem is why does a person have to ask for God to reveal something to him for years with no answer? What would such a revelation be like? A thought that I think might have come from God? A feeling in my heart? An audible voice? Most adamant believers don't even claim to have heard something so concrete. So why is such a revelation of his truthfulness apparently so hard to perceive, even for someone who wants to believe? (May 11, 2011 at 8:56 pm)tackattack Wrote: I can understand that you personally see no evidence for God, but are/were you looking? I'm not sure what you're asking. I already said I was looking, or at least I was at one time. (May 12, 2011 at 8:14 pm)Zenith Wrote: Perhaps He was following a higher objective. If He knew that He could have sent His son later in order to fix things, then the creation of man would have worthed it. But wouldn't the very need to "fix things" imply that God erred on the first plan? This, it seems to me, would negate his divinity. |
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