Was Muhammad a Pedophile?

[Violet]

You see what you want to see Sae. You're really the LAST person on earth, even after Frodo and Rayaan that I would use as a judge of guidelines for morality. (and I mean DEAD LAST)

Morality being entirely subjective... this is supposed to faze me... how?

When it comes to morals and right and wrong - I seriously think that even Rayaan and I would share more common ground in what is and is not basic human decency.

And again, morality and words describing what one perceives to be moral or not, is entirely subjective.

Perhaps address the spoken and not the speaker, next time?

[Cinjin]

You see what you want to see Sae. You're really the LAST person on earth, even after Frodo and Rayaan that I would use as a judge of guidelines for morality. (and I mean DEAD LAST)

Morality being entirely subjective... this is supposed to faze me... how?

When it comes to morals and right and wrong - I seriously think that even Rayaan and I would share more common ground in what is and is not basic human decency.

And again, morality and words describing what one perceives to be moral or not, is entirely subjective.

Perhaps address the spoken and not the speaker, next time?

That was my whole point Rayaan. I said there IS a line that is drawn that makes morality NO LONGER subjective. Pay attention!!

That "line" turns morality into basic human decency.

I'll give a for instance for you. If I snuck into Sae's house while she was out and hid away in the dark for her to return and upon that return decided to beat her senseless, sexually assault her and than cut her head off for my own amusement ... THAT would be morally wrong. THAT is not SUBJECTIVE! THAT is the knowledge of BASIC HUMAN DECENCY! You see now??!?!? a line CAN be drawn!

Pay THE FUCK attention! Morality is subjective on many levels. I never said it wasn't.

[fr0d0]

No need for me to repeat what Sae and Rayaan have said there. You say you aren't trying to force your culture onto someone else when you clearly are Cinjin.

<edit> to address the post you just made while I was posting this

We might agree lines to be drawn, but not easily cross culturally. THAT is where the rub is.

It seems as if all of us here are agreeing on the point on the 9 year old girl. What isn't clear is the age when she married, or the age she was when the marriage was consummated, and what that consummation entailed. We DO know that she went on to be a successful woman, that the marriage and consummation was with the blessing of her parents and culture. If basic human decency was violated then the above doesn't fit, unless you are saying that great exception was made for the prophet, which I find very hard to believe... that there is no evidence of dissent that survived him. That's a pretty thin claim if that's what you're making, and we'd all here agree in principle with you. But we have to keep that in perspective. It would be foolish to ignore the facts and suppose something wholly unlikely.

[Cinjin]

No need for me to repeat what Sae and Rayaan have said there. You say you aren't trying to force your culture onto someone else when you clearly are Cinjin.

Thank you. We're all glad you chose to shut up.

[Violet]

That was my whole point Rayaan. I said there IS a line that is drawn that makes morality NO LONGER subjective. Pay attention!!

That "line" turns morality into basic human decency.

What is this line that is not subjective? I certainly haven't heard of it before... tell me then: what is basic human decency?

I'll give a for instance for you. If I snuck into Sae's house while she was out and hid away in the dark for her to return and upon that return decided to beat her senseless, sexually assault her and than cut her head off for my own amusement ... THAT would be morally wrong. THAT is not SUBJECTIVE! THAT is the knowledge of BASIC HUMAN DECENCY! You see now??!?!? a line CAN be drawn!

Good luck beating me senseless, sexually assaulting me, and cutting off my head though I would recommend you ambush me somewhere that I do not happen to have security cameras pointing

Also, unlike most people here: I do not consider doing things for one's amusement to be morally 'wrong'. I consider doing things *without any reason or for any goal* to be without morals... but no moral can be wrong. Inherent in identity, all morals are all morals. They are not a thing that can be wrong while they are themselves. Wrongness is when a thing claims to be something that it isn't, ie: 2+2=7. What is 'right' is for a thing to follow logically. What is wrong is for this to not be the case.

That said, I certainly would not want you to do such a thing to me. But I wouldn't think you without morals for doing it: I would consider you of negative worth to me, and would either attempt to kill you or attempt to get away. Probably both at the same time, while warning others of potential danger if possible.

You say a line can be drawn where there is no capacity for middle ground. Morality is, is not not, and must be so or not. Moral wrongness is a misnomer and that is all

Pay THE FUCK attention! Morality is subjective on many levels. I never said it wasn't.

On all levels, even. Which you suppose it isn't

---

No need for me to repeat what Sae and Rayaan have said there. You say you aren't trying to force your culture onto someone else when you clearly are Cinjin.

Thank you. We're all glad you chose to shut up.

I'm not: I like fr0d0 and what he has to say, usually

[Cinjin]

Moral wrongness is a misnomer and that is all.

I'm truly beginning to believe that you are capable of rationalizing anything as long as you get to disagree with a point.

You defend pedophilia with Frodo and Rayaan, you applaud genocide, you think violent murder (even your own) is not morally wrong as long as the murderer enjoys it .... the list goes on and on. You are not worthy of defining morality for ANYONE. Just reading your posts sometimes gives me the chills. I think some of your ideas are so dangerous that if spoken in the wrong place you would be risking permanent storage in an asylum for the criminally insane.

Personally, I think you should spend less time with medical doctors and spend every dollar you have on intense psychotherapy. I'm not saying this to be funny, the way I would if I was talking to Frodo. I truly think you should get serious professional mental help.

[Violet]

I'm truly beginning to believe that you are capable of rationalizing anything as long as you get to disagree with a point.

Capable? Always. I am the most powerful being in the universe, after all

You defend pedophilia with Frodo and Rayaan, you applaud genocide, you think violent murder (even your own) is not morally wrong as long as the murderer enjoys it .... the list goes on and on. You are not worthy of defining morality for ANYONE. Just reading your posts sometimes gives me the chills. I think some of your ideas are so dangerous that if spoken in the wrong place you would be risking permanent storage in an asylum for the criminally insane.

And once again you respond to the speaker and not the spoken

Personally, I think you should spend less time with medical doctors and spend every dollar you have on intense psychotherapy. I'm not saying this to be funny, the way I would if I was talking to Frodo. I truly think you should get serious professional mental help.

Been there, done that: I am entirely sane

---

Also, what part of pedophilia needs defending?

Further, how is genocide not a show of how excellently powerful a person/nation is?

And why are you still going on about moral wrongness?

[Cinjin]

I'm truly beginning to believe that you are capable of rationalizing anything as long as you get to disagree with a point.

Capable? Always. I am the most powerful being in the universe, after all

You defend pedophilia with Frodo and Rayaan, you applaud genocide, you think violent murder (even your own) is not morally wrong as long as the murderer enjoys it .... the list goes on and on. You are not worthy of defining morality for ANYONE. Just reading your posts sometimes gives me the chills. I think some of your ideas are so dangerous that if spoken in the wrong place you would be risking permanent storage in an asylum for the criminally insane.

Also, what part of pedophilia needs defending?

Further, how is genocide not a show of how excellently powerful a person/nation is?

And why are you still going on about moral wrongness?

what a shock - frodo and tack agree with you. Now you only need godschild and statler's approval to get all the brothers-in-christ official stamp of stupidity on your posts.


And by the way, you and Frodo are the LAST ones who should be pointing fingers about "addressing the speaker and not the spoken".

You want to be kettle this time or the pot?

[Violet]

what a shock - frodo and tack agree with you. Now you only need godschild and statler's approval to get all the brothers-in-christ official stamp of stupidity on your posts.

We'd be missing Rayaan for the Muslim Seal of Approval

And by the way, you and Frodo are the LAST ones who should be pointing fingers about "addressing the speaker and not the spoken".

You want to be kettle this time or the pot?

And have I left anything of your unaddressed? I am once again the car: I'm always the car.

[Minimalist]

Well, the Quran is actually silent on this. Nowhere does it honor or say that it's a good thing for a 50 year old to marry a 9-year-old. This was a part of cultural custom, I believe.

"Qui tacet consentire videtur" ("He who is silent seems to consent")

Now, if your precious holy book said that a 50 year old man should NOT stick his dick in a 9 year old that would give it some moral standing.