Signs you're a fundamentalist Christian

[reverendjeremiah]

Why should I believe any atheist is smarter than Newton, Jefferson, Bacon or Locke?

If you're referring to Thomas Jefferson, you do know that he was an anti-theism deist right? In fact he edited his own version of the bible to cut out all of the crap he thought uselsess, which didn't leave much left.

LMFAO..the founding fathers were talking all of the religious crap in front of the voters, but behind closed doors they were sending letters to each other ragging on Christianity, and religion in general.. Thomas Jeffer

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
- "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
-1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches

So there is James Madison HIMSELF calling the first Amendment "Seperation of church and state". Many christians who really hate the first Amendment and America claim that there is no such thing as seperation of church and state. The founding fathers would have strongly disagreed with them and perhaps even accused them of trying to set up another religious tyranny by suggesting such.

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

"It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers" (Priestley's Autobiography)

Abraham Lincoln's first law partner, John T. Stuart, said of him: "He was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on atheism. He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I have ever heard."

Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]

George Washington was private about his religious beliefs, but it was generally accepted that he was a Deist/Freemason like his fellow founding comrades. In that time it was common knowledge that those who were intellectuals, science minded, or naturalists, were Deistic instead of Christian. Rarely was it brought up as something bad, but Thomas Jeffersons political opponent once accused Jefferson of being an atheist.

Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself."
-Thomas Jefferson, in his private journal, Feb. 1800

=====
Thomas Jefferson was SCATHING against Religion in general, and Christianity SPECIFICALLY:

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
- letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests."
- to John Adams, 1803

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816

"It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it." - to Carey, 1816

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man. But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin.
1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, is nothing.
3. That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit the faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save."
- to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

The Calvinists of his day are the modern equivalent of "evangelicals". Jefferson would have scoffed at you RAD.

"It has been fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and then I considered it merely the ravings of a maniac."

I agree Jefferson..the book of Revelations IS batshit insane.

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."

[Minimalist]

Don't omit my favorite Jefferson quote, Rev.

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

[reverendjeremiah]

Ah yes..I was looking for that one and failed to find it.

[Minimalist]

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quot...ferson.htm

[Godscreated]

Why should I believe any atheist is smarter than Newton, Jefferson, Bacon or Locke?

If you're referring to Thomas Jefferson, you do know that he was an anti-theism deist right? In fact he edited his own version of the bible to cut out all of the crap he thought uselsess, which didn't leave much left.

---

LMFAO..the founding fathers were talking all of the religious crap in front of the voters, but behind closed doors they were sending letters to each other ragging on Christianity, and religion in general.. Thomas Jeffer

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
- "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
-1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches

So there is James Madison HIMSELF calling the first Amendment "Seperation of church and state". Many christians who really hate the first Amendment and America claim that there is no such thing as seperation of church and state. The founding fathers would have strongly disagreed with them and perhaps even accused them of trying to set up another religious tyranny by suggesting such.

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

"It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers" (Priestley's Autobiography)

Abraham Lincoln's first law partner, John T. Stuart, said of him: "He was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on atheism. He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I have ever heard."

---

Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]

George Washington was private about his religious beliefs, but it was generally accepted that he was a Deist/Freemason like his fellow founding comrades. In that time it was common knowledge that those who were intellectuals, science minded, or naturalists, were Deistic instead of Christian. Rarely was it brought up as something bad, but Thomas Jeffersons political opponent once accused Jefferson of being an atheist.

---

Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself."
-Thomas Jefferson, in his private journal, Feb. 1800

=====
Thomas Jefferson was SCATHING against Religion in general, and Christianity SPECIFICALLY:

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
- letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests."
- to John Adams, 1803

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816

"It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it." - to Carey, 1816

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man. But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin.
1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, is nothing.
3. That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit the faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save."
- to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

The Calvinists of his day are the modern equivalent of "evangelicals". Jefferson would have scoffed at you RAD.

"It has been fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and then I considered it merely the ravings of a maniac."

I agree Jefferson..the book of Revelations IS batshit insane.

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."

---

You're basing what G.Washington believed from a book written 200 years after his life, well sounds like you do not practice what you preach. G. Washington was a devoted christian. If you are interested in the truth you should read Washington's personal prayer book that was discovered in 1891,written in his own handwritting. Much of his theology is revealed in these prayers and when one reads these prayers it leaves no doubt that he was a true christian.

This from a source close to Washington when he was president of the U.S., Mr. Lewis being his personal secretary and nephew saw Washington during his devotional time on his knees and with a Bible open in front of him praying, this he wittnessed on different occasions morning and evening, and believed this to be a daily practice.

[Minimalist]

And once again we see thr wisdom of Ingersoll when he said:

Orthodox Christians have the habit of claiming all great men, all men who have held important positions, men of reputation, men of wealth. As soon as the funeral is over clergymen begin to relate imaginary conversations with the deceased, and in a very little while the great man is changed to a Christian -- possibly to a saint.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll

George Washington has frequently been described as a "Deist." Washington is not known to have described himself using this word, nor is he known to have been been a member of any Deist organizations. Some writings by George Washington indicate Deist beliefs; other writings indicate non-Deist beliefs.

Although he was an Anglican and an Episcopalian, Washington reportedly did not take communion and was not considered an official "communicant" (full-fledged adult church member).

It is generally agreed upon that Washington's beliefs could be described as "deist" during at least part of his life. Deism for Washington, as with most historical figueres classifed as deists, was never an actual religious affiliation, but was a classification of theological belief. As nearly all major political figures from Washington's era can be described as "deists" if a sufficiently broad definition is used an if the correct quotations are selected, classifying Washington as a Deist may not by particularly useful or distinctive.

Although the Episcopal Church is the only denomination Washington ever attended with any regularlity, he was not particularly dedicated to the denomination nor did he have a strong Anglican or Episcopalian self-identity. During Washington's era there was no real notion that he was a "non-Christian," and his denominational affiliation certainly placed him well within "mainstream" Christianity at the time. But Washington's religious beliefs could be classified as relatively broad and non-specific. His disinterest or disbelief in some mainstream Protestant Christian beliefs have led later (usually partisan) commentators to label Washington as "non-Christian."

http://www.adherents.com/people/pw/Georg...ngton.html


Oh, and before you are tempted to claim Abraham Lincoln, too.

My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.
-- Abraham Lincoln

[Doubting Thomas]

I'm a fundamentalist and only six of your statmants even come close to what I believe.

Good thing only 2-3 come close to what I believe.

The problem with this is that I wrote them to point out how absurdly hypocritical fundie Christians can be, so to say that you agree with any of them is not something to be proud of.

[tackattack]

way off rev.

[Cinjin]

Always annoying...
Christians claiming Deists are one of them. It's so painfully insulting. Thank you Rev and Min for helping to set them straight.

Its GOOD having atheists for friends.

[Godscreated]

Always annoying...
Christians claiming Deists are one of them. It's so painfully insulting. Thank you Rev and Min for helping to set them straight.

Its GOOD having atheists for friends.

If you are refering to my post then you should do as I asked rev.j., Washington was a devoted christian. If I after reading material on Washington had even thought he might be a deist I would not say he was a christian. As for Jefferson he's not a christian and Franklin probably not, none of this matters though they all supported the rights to belief and faith.