A View on Atheist

[diffidus]

I must admit, that when I first joined this Forum it was shortly after reading 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins. I was amazed by how much of a rant this book was. The only book of I have read that has a similar style is Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler! I began to wonder if all atheists held such a viciferous view.

Since that time, in this Forum, I have come across, what I would call Fundamentalist Atheists (and some that prefer not to use a civil tone). But I have noticed that fundamentalists seem to exist in all walks of life. Apart from these, however, I have discovered another group of, what I would term, more moderate Atheists and from these I have had a great discussion and learned much. Relative to this group, my own agnostic position is but a hairs breadth different from their's. The outcome of the discussion can be distilled into the following statements:

'There is no empirical evidence that currently exists to support the notion that God exists, therefore, I do not believe in God'
'There is no empirical evidence that currently exists to support the notion that God exists, therefore, God's existence is unlikely'

I tend to the latter statement, moderate atheists seem to prefer the former. The distinction is small but subtly different. The first statement is, at a shade, slightly more closed than the second. I prefer the second since it most accurately reflects the facts as they stand and , at a shade, is more open minded than the first phrase.

[bozo]

Put another way, god's existence is so unlikely I don't believe he/she/it exists.

[Eternity]

Comparing Mein Kampf to God Delusion is not going to get you any point there. Though I didn't agree with what he said I would go as far as to compare it with the racist bigotry that is in Mein Kampf.

'There is no empirical evidence that currently exists to support the notion that God exists, therefore, I do not believe in God'
'There is no empirical evidence that currently exists to support the notion that God exists, therefore, God's existence is unlikely'

So you find yourself having a thought there maybe a God while you believe it be unlikely? While the others believe it to say god doesn't exist. Why does it matter? So you can find solace in a hint of the possibility of God existing?

[LastPoet]

I call Godwin's law on this one!

[Ace Otana]

Based on his previous posts, he uses special pleading as well as the argumentum ad populum.
So far his arguments have held no water.

[Faith No More]

First of it depends on what God you are talking about. I wholly dismiss the chance of any specific God man has created as being completely impossible. I hold a slight chance that some sort of impersonal God, such as the one deist describe, exists but not much.

Second, the first sentence is not being closed minded, it is simply a statement based on the probability of a God existing. If I were to ask you to guess a ten digit sequence of numbers, the chance of you guessing the same one I am thinking of are incredibly small. Therefore, I can say with relative certainty, that you will not guess that sequence correctly. Is there a chance you could? Sure, but not enough to keep an open mind to possibility of it happening.

Also, the second sentence is not more open minded, it is just that you seem to have come to a different conclusion on the probability of a God existing. You keep coming off as if somehow holding onto the likelihood of a God existing makes you more enlightened than everyone else, which makes you no different from the fundamentalists you claim are so wrong.

[Shell B]

What difference does it make? You believe it unlikely that god exists. Atheists believe it either impossible or so unlikely as to be easily dismissed as a viable belief. Either way, you cannot take that one subtle difference and say there are fundamentalist atheists. While I do think that some atheists are forceful, that does not make them wrong. You could say, "these atheists are a little forceful," but you cannot compare them to fundamentalist Christians who base their entire lives on faith in the highly unlikely. In short, you jumped from A to C without giving me a B. What makes these atheists "fundamentalists," apart from your own dislike for bad language?

Mein Kampf is hate literature, as Eternity pointed out. It was written by a man who was driven insane in his lust for power. While I don't claim to read atheist literature, as the topic really shouldn't be broadened more than necessary as it creates confusion among fundies, I find it highly unlikely that the God Delusion is written by a madman who wants to kill millions of people.

[Violet]

It's a value thing. To believe in any gods, I first would have to hold a reason to. For this to occur, I would have to have his existence demonstrated to me. And for that: I would have to not recognize the inaccuracies even I am capable of

[diffidus]

Comparing Mein Kampf to God Delusion is not going to get you any point there. Though I didn't agree with what he said I would go as far as to compare it with the racist bigotry that is in Mein Kampf.

'There is no empirical evidence that currently exists to support the notion that God exists, therefore, I do not believe in God'
'There is no empirical evidence that currently exists to support the notion that God exists, therefore, God's existence is unlikely'

So you find yourself having a thought there maybe a God while you believe it be unlikely? While the others believe it to say god doesn't exist. Why does it matter? So you can find solace in a hint of the possibility of God existing?

Diffidus:

I knew mentioning Mein Kampf may cause some confusion. If you look carefully at what I said, I made no reference to the content of either book, I was refering to the style in which they are both written (a hubristic rant),. I agree with you that, if we are talking about the subject, then there is no comparison - Mein Kampf is filth.

I do not find solace in the fact that a God may exist. In fact, since I am rather lapsed in the religious department, it would be somewhat frightening. No, I just like to align my views as closely to the facts as they exist at this moment in time.

---

First of it depends on what God you are talking about. I wholly dismiss the chance of any specific God man has created as being completely impossible. I hold a slight chance that some sort of impersonal God, such as the one deist describe, exists but not much.

Second, the first sentence is not being closed minded, it is simply a statement based on the probability of a God existing. If I were to ask you to guess a ten digit sequence of numbers, the chance of you guessing the same one I am thinking of are incredibly small. Therefore, I can say with relative certainty, that you will not guess that sequence correctly. Is there a chance you could? Sure, but not enough to keep an open mind to possibility of it happening.

Also, the second sentence is not more open minded, it is just that you seem to have come to a different conclusion on the probability of a God existing. You keep coming off as if somehow holding onto the likelihood of a God existing makes you more enlightened than everyone else, which makes you no different from the fundamentalists you claim are so wrong.

Diffidus:

I would certainly keep an open mind that someone could possibly guess a sequence of 10 numbers.

Fundamentalism, for me, is a word that applies to someone who knows the answer even when the information to provide the answer is not available. In the case of Christians, they believe that God exists but they base it on pure faith and are not interested in facts. In the case of fundamentalist atheists, they believe that God does not exist and have closed their mind to the possibility even though they may actually be wrong.

[reverendjeremiah]

Doofus and his godwin are no suprise to me. Claims we are "fundy atheist" then claims that Richard Dawkins (of all people) writes in the style of Mein Kampf.

Difidus..you are a fucking tool.

The ignore button is looking more and more tempting for this one. My time is precious, and I dont waste it on the exagerated ranting of idiots.