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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 29, 2011 at 9:47 pm
(This post was last modified: June 29, 2011 at 9:48 pm by Paul the Human.)
(June 29, 2011 at 8:36 pm)Epimethean Wrote: How would you factor theological noncognitivism into that, Paul?
Why would I? To me the whole thing is very simple. There are claims that god(s) exist. I do not believe that those claims are true. I believe that there are no gods.
I do not (cannot) know whether there are gods or not, but I do not believe that there are. Anything beyond that is superfluous and semantic.
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 29, 2011 at 9:52 pm
You cannot know that the God of Mormon mythology is not real? You cannot know that Xenu is a fictional character? You cannot know that the gods of cargo cults are fictitious?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 29, 2011 at 9:59 pm
(This post was last modified: June 29, 2011 at 10:01 pm by Paul the Human.)
(June 29, 2011 at 9:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You cannot know that the God of Mormon mythology is not real? You cannot know that Xenu is a fictional character? You cannot know that the gods of cargo cults are fictitious?
I was talking about the concept of a god existing at all. I cannot know, for certain, that no god of any kind exists. I am as certain as I can be, but I cannot say that I know.
And no, Judas... atheism is not a belief system, but it is a belief. It is a belief that the claims of the existence of god(s) are false.
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 29, 2011 at 10:08 pm
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2011 at 12:24 am by The Grand Nudger.)
If one defines a god in a way that it becomes factually meaningless in what way is it similar to a factually meaningful god? Are they gods at all?
I suppose the question I'm asking here, in the shortened form of the three I posted, is that if we were to create a long long list of all of the descriptions of god, going through them one by one and showing them to be individually false, when we're done, and we decide to say..."but we cannot know that gods of any kind are not real" what exactly are we saying? Did we not just list gods of every and any kind?
Carl Sagan's dragon immediately springs to mind.
I suppose I object to the premise/conclusion on practical grounds.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 30, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Always break things down to the simplest form. A god in the sense I mean is a supreme intelligence that is directly responsible for creating... everything. There is no way for anyone to know (with absolute knowledge) whether or not such a being exists.
All we can do is decide what we believe. Atheist believe that such beings do not exist. Theists/deists believe that at least one does.
Neither side of the issue can honestly claim to know. Everyone (if you ask me) is agnostic about the existence of god(s). Anyone claiming to be a gnostic theist (knows god exists) or a gnostic atheist (knows that god(s) do not exist) is carrying a huge burden of proof... as they are claiming to have some pretty heavy knowledge.
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 30, 2011 at 6:23 pm
You're absolutely right, I've phrased my response poorly. I cannot know that no god exists. I can know that a specific god doesn't exist. Is the point I'm making. "Some posters" would like to place the armor of the great unknowable on their particular fantasy. That is what I object to.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 30, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Yeah. All one need do is read the bible (qu'ran, book of mormon, dianetics, etc) to know it's bullshit. Heheh.
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 30, 2011 at 8:23 pm
(June 30, 2011 at 6:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You're absolutely right, I've phrased my response poorly. I cannot know that no god exists. I can know that a specific god doesn't exist. Is the point I'm making. You got that wrong again. You can't 'know' that any god exists or doesn't exist. You can 'believe' one doesn't, or you can choose not to believe one does, but you can't 'know' either way.
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 30, 2011 at 8:28 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
Only because they are the low hanging fruit.
Take special care to notice the entry on the island of Tanna.
Looks like we're short one god already.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I Find It Offensive; How About You
June 30, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Damn I was gonna add a clause for 'those' gods 
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