[split] Hitler had ulterior motives and really wasn't a Christian after all

[Shell B]

I want to disagree here, not with the content of the argument (i.e. I do believe that Hitler was a Christian), but more with the form of the argument itself. There are plenty of examples of people hiding their true beliefs, and labeling themselves as another, in order to gain power, or to escape prosecution.

Salman Rushdie tried it in order to escape the fatwa that had been placed on him after the publication of The Satanic Verses.

And yes, he did eventually admit it was a lie, but the fact that Hitler didn't do this is irrelevant, given his relatively early death.

I admit, it isn't a perfect argument, but Hitler didn't need to hide his true beliefs to gain power or to escape prosecution. He could very well have been lying, but I guess my contention here is that he never admitted to doing so, so I am inclined to assume that he considered himself a Christian.

[Gawdzilla]

Forty years ago the saying was "You have to be crazy or you wouldn't be here." It was true.

[Anomalocaris]

It doesn't really matter what Hitler thought himself, though his own words tend to suggest he was very religious. His references to religion persuaded many others to carry out plenty of killings for him.
And at least one of his contemporaries thought him religious enough to do business with.

Actually, in a dinner monologue in 1941, hitler expounded on his view of christianity in relation to Germany and the Aryan race to Josef goebbels, his propaganda minister. Hitler was recorded as saying nazified Aryan mythology should systematically supplant Christianity amongst Germans in the future German empire because this mythology is so designed as to harden Aryans, built cohesion amongst Aryans and maximize the instinct to dehumanize non-Aryans. Hitler was also recorded as saying the Christianity should be encouraged and supported amongst non-Aryans because it would keep non-Aryans stupid and easily manipulatable by Aryans.

---

I want to disagree here, not with the content of the argument (i.e. I do believe that Hitler was a Christian), but more with the form of the argument itself. There are plenty of examples of people hiding their true beliefs, and labeling themselves as another, in order to gain power, or to escape prosecution.

Salman Rushdie tried it in order to escape the fatwa that had been placed on him after the publication of The Satanic Verses.

And yes, he did eventually admit it was a lie, but the fact that Hitler didn't do this is irrelevant, given his relatively early death.

I admit, it isn't a perfect argument, but Hitler didn't need to hide his true beliefs to gain power or to escape prosecution. He could very well have been lying, but I guess my contention here is that he never admitted to doing so, so I am inclined to assume that he considered himself a Christian.

He was not. He expressed many times his loathing and contempt for Christianity as the religion that weakens and corrupts people. He also believes liberation from Christianity should be a privilege restricted to Aryans so as to maximize the competitive advantage of the Aryans.

[Minimalist]

Christianity should be encouraged and supported amongst non-Aryans because it would keep non-Aryans stupid and easily manipulatable

He nailed that idea, didn't he.

[Anomalocaris]

Christianity should be encouraged and supported amongst non-Aryans because it would keep non-Aryans stupid and easily manipulatable

He nailed that idea, didn't he.

He did. Like most successful tyrants, he was an extraordinarily shrewd judge of motivations and real purposes of different political forces, and how best to use them to his own advantage.

[Gawdzilla]

Hitler ordered the following oaths be taken by ALL Wehrmacht officers and civil servants.

Wehrmacht oath

Die Vereidigung der Wehrmacht auf Adolf Hitler, 2.8.1934

"Ich schwöre bei Gott diesen heiligen Eid, daß ich dem Führer des Deutschen Reiches und Volkes Adolf Hitler, dem Oberbefehlshaber der Wehrmacht, unbedingten Gehorsam leisten und als tapferer Soldat bereit sein will, jederzeit für diesen Eid mein Leben einzusetzen."

The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"I swear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath."
[edit] Civil servant oath

Diensteid der öffentlichen Beamten

Ich schwöre: Ich werde dem Führer des Deutschen Reiches und Volkes Adolf Hitler treu und gehorsam sein, die Gesetze beachten, und meine Amtspflichten gewissenhaft erfüllen, so wahr mir Gott helfe.

Service oath for public servants

I swear: I will be faithful and obedient to the leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, to observe the law, and to conscientiously fulfil my official duties, so help me God!

[Anomalocaris]

While the historic christian tradition in Germany was still influential Hitler was certainly cynical and opportunistic enough to exploit the opening that religious faith creates for him to command German loyalty. But there is no doubt in the long run Hitler envision the replacement of Christianity in Germany with a new, manufactured, religion loosely based on pre-christian pagan Germanic religion, incorporate elements of 19th century occult, re-calibrated to incocate Nazi ideal of blood, soil and racial supremacy, and organized around a hierarchic religious organization modeled after the Catholic Church.

Hitler was no stooge of any religion. He used religion wherever he saw fit, and was not adverse to making up new ones on the spot where old ones didn't suite.

During the later stages of WWII, when Germany was desparately short of manpower, Hitler pronounced Islam to be an acceptable religion for Aryans, so as to be able to conscript Muslims of Bosnia (Remember of Bosnian war in the aftermath of the division of Yogoslavia?) into the supposedly racially pure Aryan SS.

[Gawdzilla]

Bottom line: He was religious, not an atheist.

[Epimethean]

He certainly liked being worshiped, the sick fuck.

[Castle]

He certainly liked being worshiped, the sick fuck.

Hitter made popular the mental illness called megalomaniac, Obsessed with issues of race, nationality, pride and here the world revolves around you. My ex wife was one also in a lower degree, a person of high intellect yet low morale and ethics understanding

The kind of people you get rid of, before they get rid of you, unless you except being a slave.