Evidence that God exists

[Demonaura]

Yes the idea of time is accepted but, you miss my point. It is a model that we use that so far appears to represet reality. Just like the atomic model is not exactly what atoms look like but, the model represents what we observe in reality.

Perfect in any way, I have never once met a perfect anything. Some things appear perfect but, only if you severely limit your scope.

Actually I wouldn't expect you to be shaking, just about every beleiver I've met interprets the bible their own way and picks/chooses what parts to ignore and what parts to use. Some of them literally were only good because they were scared of being punished. They openly admitted that if they were not in fear of that then they would go around raping and pillaging. some beleivers see that as a positive effect, I see that instead of scaring the shit out of this man we could have spent our time raising a moral human being who would grow up to be a welcome member of society. What a waste.

I would be curious to see this potential you speak of though. I must have seen fifety variations of the tale and they all basically say "everything wrong with your life is your fault but, I'll forgive you if you kiss my ass. If you don't I'll be happy to provide you with infinite punishment for your finite crime. got a problem? Welcome to god country." (sarcastic as hell but you get the idea I'm sure)

[fr0d0]

You better go and read the bible then EvF, it's on every page. I'm sure you couldn't miss it
The answer to all the evidence I could give you from the bible is this:






@ Demonaura: Every individual would have to have their own interpretation yes. They couldn't not. There's a difference between the religious and the faithful. To be 'religious' is to follow the law. Faith inspires.

In Christianity, following the law alone is abhorrent to God. He demands questioning and doubt. Without faith I think there is no point. I certainly wouldn't bother if living by the law was all there was, and neither would every Christian I know.

The opposite of faith is fear. This is what you're talking about, but equating it with Christianity, which is incorrect.

[Edwardo Piet]

fr0d0, the bible is not a magic book.

No book can magically give evidence; it can only give evidence if its really out there in reality.

If I wrote down something really interesting on a piece of paper that was supposed to be evidence of Zeus: No matter what I wrote it couldn't be evidence. Only if it was referring to some real evidence out there in reality.

EvF

[Tiberius]

The answer to all the evidence I could give you from the bible is this:

Sometimes I think you are actually a Poe, even though you aren't a fundamentalist. Seriously? You actually think circular arguments are good? Who wants to bet the image was made by an anti-theist rather than a theist?

[fr0d0]

A Poe? (excuse my ignorance)

No I don't think circular arguments are good & yes I think an atheist made it.

That doesn't actually apply to Christianity, We believe God inspired the book/s, & that because it's an interpretation by humans, it's potentially errant. It's Muslims who believe God actually wrote it.

[Demonaura]

Faith inspires, no offence intended but, I chuckled a bit. Perhaps you define faith differently but, faith according to every christian I'VE spoken too means unquestioning loyalty despite any and all evidence.

So you cannot have a god that demands questioning and doubt that also asks for faith.

Do you also admit that you would not live by the law if there were no god? That seems to be what you're saying there. In that case please stay away from children you're dangerous and will be locked up eventually.

And no, the opposite of faith is evidence. Faith and fear are completely seperate, you can have fear with or without faith, and you can have faith with or without fear. You could beleive in god simply because you were raised to do so and also fear that same god because of what you think he will do.

And to equate it with christianity, is not nearly as far off as you suggest. If you are talking about the ones who ignore the bible and follow only the 'teachings of christ' (which from what I have heard are all messages of loving others and supporthing those who need it and such) then know that they are not who I am talking about. I am talking about the christians who seperate their daughter from her boyfriend on valentines day telling her they did it to save her from hell, the christians who for fear of even touching the subject of there not being a god attack atheists and agnostics without knowing the first thing about them, the christians who shut the door in a neighbors face when they discover he is homosexual, for fear of their children becoming homosexual (when they are ignorant to think anything of the sort). Oh, and for the record the first two examples are real examples that I witnessed, the third I have not seen first hand but, seems like the kinda crap that is happening in california USA. right now.

The term christian describes a great variety of people, even the things you think are central to christian beleif are not central to many christians. Including the idea of who wrote the book btw.

[Tiberius]

A Poe? (excuse my ignorance)

Poe's law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

In other words, sometimes you seem to post things (like that circular thing) that makes me wonder if you actually are a Christian, or an atheist who is having a joke.

That doesn't actually apply to Christianity, We believe God inspired the book/s, & that because it's an interpretation by humans, it's potentially errant. It's Muslims who believe God actually wrote it.

Well at least that's something. Biblical literalists never go away despite the evidence against their view.

[Edwardo Piet]

fr0d0, you say you believe in God because you believe the bible is inspired by God. That's totally circular.

What makes you believe in God in the first place that then leads you to believe there is a God TO inspire the bible?

EvF

[lukec]

Adrian- I don't think that he is having a lark, I think he actually doesn't understand just how likely it is that that image was made by some anti-theist, like you said. How funny though, that a theist would post such a thing...

Oddly though that image reminds me instantly of Lord of the Rings- one ring to rule them all? How apt- a ring of circular logic which holds many in sway.

[Edwardo Piet]

As far as I'm concerned, it's bloody obvious that image is anti-theistic right?

I mean MANY theists use circular logic, but to show it up so blatantly and to be in favour of it, I've never seen that before!

Not impossible though. But bloody weird if that was the case.

EvF