Evidence that God exists

[fr0d0]

"Do you also admit that you would not live by the law if there were no god? That seems to be what you're saying there. In that case please stay away from children you're dangerous and will be locked up eventually."

LOL. I like you

We have to live by secular law or we get punished. As a Christian you have a direct relationship with the law giver, who you discover all this time has wanted to be your friend. It's like suddenly becoming a chief of police but without the power over others LOL.

I certainly disagree with shunning people, but I guess like with this forum, sometimes it's best for the community for several reasons. Adrian, as god, may be able to answer this for you.

This topic has split across threads. Sorry if I'm missing anything out. Christianity is an aim and not a destination. Christians can and do do some very bad stuff. This doesn't mean that the ideal is bad, just the things people do. I've known lots of gay people. I've met a gay Christian pastor too. He said God made him that way and I believed him. I find it's usually people insecure in themselves that lash out at minorities, in faith groups as well as outside. Again, this isn't how Christ would act.

"if you actually are a Christian, or an atheist who is having a joke" ...is that another definition of Christian.. an atheist who's having a joke? LOL *winks*

"Biblical literalists never go away despite the evidence against their view." ain't it true LOL

I should have been a fisherman. EvF & Lukec - consider yourselves LANDED! LOL (and apologies for being so sneaky )

[Edwardo Piet]

What you mean "LANDED" ?

Sorry I'm not TOTALLY sure I understand?

EvF

[fr0d0]

I meant, EvF, that I think you said you thought this was my opinion, when the picture was a stock atheist answer to biblical non-empirical evidence. Apologies if it wasn't clear.

[Edwardo Piet]

So you were showing an atheistic answer to bible literalists?

What I'm wondering is how you can believe in God when there is no evidence. The bible is not evidence, it's not a magic book.

You have now said that earlier you didn't mean there was NO evidence or that its ridiculous to require evidence for God - what you MEANT was EMPIRICAL evidence.

So I ask: What NON-empirical evidence is there for the existence of God?

I don't believe there is any.

EvF

[fr0d0]

I always qualified my statements with the word 'proof', and I've used the word empirical quite a lot. I don't think you could fairly hang me on that point.

So you're stating that the bible can contain no non empirical evidence, yet you want me to provide non empirical evidence from the bible? Did I get that right?


Are you chasing your tail?

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes - because you have said that you think there is some NON-empirical evidence right?

When you said the its "ridiculous for the existence of God to require evidence" you have said you are talking about EMPIRICAL evidence.

So I would like you to give what you think is NON-empirical evidence. I'd like you to back up your assertion. We certainly don't have to 'prove that it isn't so' or 'show otherwise'. You claim it is ridiculous for God to require evidence - but have now said you are only talking about EMPIRICAL evidence - so I'd like to know of some of this NON-empirical evidence that you believe there is?

We don't have to prove it isn't so. The burden of proof is on you. I don't see why God shouldn't require empirical evidence for existence, as anything else does.

Yes it may be silly because there obviously isn't any empirical evidence - a good reason to think he doesn't exist until shown otherwise. If there's no empical evidence of any other claims of existence, never mind such big claims, it requires evidence. So why on earth should God be exempt?

I don't think he should. What is the evidence of God according to you? NON-empirical or otherwise. The bible is not a magic book and that is not evidence in any shape or form. Anecdote is not evidence. Saying God exists because in a holy book that is supposed to be inspired by God himself is completely circular logic.

EvF

[fr0d0]

Well as you are saying that you definitely won't accept what I say before I even say it, I really honestly can't be bothered at all to expend any energy on it. I am completely de-motivated.

Why should God be exempt - covered
Non acceptance of belief requires no justification - accepted
Science requires empirical evidence of scientific claim - accepted
Atheists consider biblical evidence of God circular logic - accepted

Conversation over I believe.

[Edwardo Piet]

Why should God be exempt - How exactly did you cover it? Why should he be exempt from evidence?

Non acceptable of belief requires no justification - accepted but I don' t see why God should in any way a special case.

Science requires empirical evidence of scientific claim - of course. But also, any existence claim is a scientific claim. If you claim something exists you're talking science there.

Atheists consider biblical evidence of God circular logic - indeed. Where is the true logic there?

And....I have not said I definitely won't accept. I have said I don't believe there is any. And I am almost certain there never will be.

The point is I would like to hear of your reasons. What do YOU consider to be evidence? I would like a chance to respond to your reasons. I will almost certainly just go about trying to refute them (I believe God almost certainly doesn't exist): But what's wrong with that? Then you could try and refute my refuting, and explain why you DO believe there is evidence of God - whether you believe this evidence is NON-empirical or not.

EvF

[Kyuuketsuki]

Why should God be exempt - covered

Er sorry (I'm not really) but it ain't.

Non acceptance of belief requires no justification - accepted

If I understand that correctly, true because it is unsubstantiated and therefore does not need to be regarded in any way as factual.

Science requires empirical evidence of scientific claim - accepted

More-or-less ... scientific method relies of factual (validatable/empirical) evidence but the conclusions do not though they must be seen to be *reasonable* and compatible with the evidence presented.

Atheists consider biblical evidence of God circular logic - accepted

It is true that the core biblical claims require additional evidence in order to be regarded as anywhere near factual.

Conversation over I believe.

If you wish.

Kyu

[Demonaura]

Secular law systems are unfortunately not equal, at least not where I live. I'm Canadian, in this country the laws are made by groups of people who are chosen by the people to represent us. We choose to ask these people to do their best to represent our interests on a national scale. The laws we create are intended to do the best we can for everyone, unfortunately we have very few options when it comes to what is done after a crime.

We do not murder here, there is no death penalty. Our process involves seperating the criminal from society before he/she hurts someone else, or themselves and starting a process called rehabilitation where we try to teach them why what they did was wrong.

Corpared to your divine lawgiver 'friend' who has a death count high enough to give global terrorisim a run for it's money. Will give you no second chances. Makes whatever laws he bloody well feels like making whether it's for our own good or not (1 Corinthians 11:14-15 Because women need to be 'covered').

Personally I see comparing biblical law to the laws of a democratic nation an insult to the efforts of humanity to better itself and grow, just as I see religion as stunting that growth. It may have some benefits in the short term (churches tend to have exesses of money to fund charities) but, not one single benefit of religion is unique to religion, they can all be gotten from secular means as simple as a community center.

Community center is like a church in that everyone gathers there but, the community is welcome and it benefits everyone instead of promoting MORE un and them thought.



EDIT: I forgot to say, I am glad to hear about the homosexual pastor. You guys may both be ignoring the bible to accept it but, it means that you can tell right and wrong and are able to accept people for who they are. Which imo is far too rare, not just in theists but in everyone. thumbs up. (From what I know of christ I agree, if his legend is even partially true, which I imagine it is he would not have condoned such hate.)