A question about original sin.

[The Grand Nudger]

When they're done sorting out the priestly class.....maybe they could start working on that.

[Epimethean]

It would be a great way to hasten that sorting.

[Cinjin]

You should not have Fr0d0 on ignore you could learn a thing or two from him.

[fr0d0]

I'd put the idiots on ignore but then I'd have no reason to come here

[Faith No More]

I'd put the idiots on ignore but then I'd have no reason to come here

How can you ignore yourself?

[The Grand Nudger]

He has a proven track record of ignoring himself. Ergo God.

[Statler Waldorf]

[

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I don't quite agree that man is not accountable for Adam's sin, Adam was mankind's representative so when he sinned we all sinned. Though it is true that man is now completely affected by sin and can do nothing good apart from the grace of God. As to the point about the flood, could you please elaborate? I am not quite following what you are asking on that one.

P.S. Why exactly do you feel the atonement is "idiotic"?

Awe yes, that ole reliable loving and Just god of the bible. One woman eats a pretty fruit off god's favorite tree and 98 billion souls are sent to hell for an eternity, all for the hideous and wicked crime of being born. 98 Billion souls .... and still counting. Now THAT'S justice! Thanks god, I sure do appreciate the way you look out for us. You are one Just deity! Don't burn me ok!

"Hey god's not sending you to hell, YOU'RE sending you to hell!" ....... No wonder they beat the shit outta jesus

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98 Billion? Where does that figure come from?

You pretend like those people didn't commit other sins, I was just pointing out that the concept of original sin is completely just; I assure you that everyone who is sent to hell committed other sins as well as their original sin. By the way, it was Adam's sin that caused the fall, not Eve's.

Adam was mankind's representative so when he sinned we all sinned.

I didn't vote for the fucker. Don't blame me.

That doesn’t matter, if congress declares war on a nation, even if I didn’t vote for those members of congress who voted to declare war I am still at war with that nation because congress represents me. Either way, you wouldn’t have done any better in Adam’s place.

One hitch, you generally tend to elect representatives nowadays, or at least we go through the motions. Well, what's done is done. Perhaps we can lobby the court to modify or amend (if not repeal) their original ruling?
(thx for the qoute Cinjin, I would've missed that gem)

God gives all some form of grace, so the original ruling was rather lenient thanks to Christ’s work for us.

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I don't quite agree that man is not accountable for Adam's sin, Adam was mankind's representative so when he sinned we all sinned.

Which makes no sense at all. It's like you or I being sent to jail because our great granddad stole a car 60 odd years ago. Why should we be punished for something we didn't do? If our justice system was like that, we'd all be in prison! Make sense of that.
Without a doubt one of your relatives from the past must of done something pretty evil at some point. Should I execute you for their crimes? No fair trial, no word you say will be listened too. All you gotta do is apologise for being born and for your age old relatives actions for which you had no control over.

God is an idiot. His system is deeply flawed. A 10 year old could do better.
If this really is the best god can do, I can confidently say, I'm a far superior designer.

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This just misses the point, when we were leveling Berlin in WWII we didn’t take the time to send out a poll to all Germans asking, “Do you agree with the 3rd Reich’s hostilities?” All of Germany was at war with the US because her representatives declared war on the US.

[edk]

This just misses the point, when we were leveling Berlin in WWII we didn’t take the time to send out a poll to all Germans asking, “Do you agree with the 3rd Reich’s hostilities?” All of Germany was at war with the US because her representatives declared war on the US.

First can I point out, again, that you are a moron. I know I say this virtually every time I engage in conversation with you, but I firmly believe that saying it over and over enough times will make me right. In fact, everyone I drive to insanity by the nonsensical and frequently insulting nature of my posts just proves my point by not being able to come up with a reply.

>Adam was mankind's representative so when he sinned we all sinned.
Like that makes sense!? We didn't even exist. Germany was at war with the US, but there were individual citizens who were not at war with the US, and they weren't punished for being in Germany. Not that it would make sense even if your example did hold up - the US doing something doesn't necessarily make it a sensible thing to do.

Why was Adam mankind's representative anyway? Dad =/= representative.

>God gives all some form of grace, so the original ruling was rather lenient thanks to Christ’s work for us.
How gracious is a god that advocates stoning the members of one's family to death if they misbehave (note: being raped is misbehaving, sorry ladies), sacrificing the first born of all your animals (and another one in place of your own), drowning people who do bad stuff, cursing a man's entire species for eating some fruit his wife gave him after being told to by a talking snake, mentally torturing people and sacrificing his own son to himself?

[Epimethean]

"That doesn’t matter, if congress declares war on a nation, even if I didn’t vote for those members of congress who voted to declare war I am still at war with that nation because congress represents me. Either way, you wouldn’t have done any better in Adam’s place."

A. Congress is real.
B. Congress is voted in by its constituency.
C. On the issue of doing better than Adam, since it is a fairy tale, and not a particularly good one, most decent writers of fantasy fiction could and have done better by creating characters and scenarios that have intellectual depth rather than idiotic diabolus ex machina plotholes.

In other words, it matters a lot.

[Cinjin]

[

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Awe yes, that ole reliable loving and Just god of the bible. One woman eats a pretty fruit off god's favorite tree and 98 billion souls are sent to hell for an eternity, all for the hideous and wicked crime of being born. 98 Billion souls .... and still counting. Now THAT'S justice! Thanks god, I sure do appreciate the way you look out for us. You are one Just deity! Don't burn me ok!

"Hey god's not sending you to hell, YOU'RE sending you to hell!" ....... No wonder they beat the shit outta jesus

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98 Billion? Where does that figure come from?

You pretend like those people didn't commit other sins, I was just pointing out that the concept of original sin is completely just; I assure you that everyone who is sent to hell committed other sins as well as their original sin. By the way, it was Adam's sin that caused the fall, not Eve's.

It is roughly estimated that over 105 billion people have lived and died since man first started walking this planet.
If you do the math of geographical location, parental upbringing, jesus' late entrance into human history, and the sheer fact that most people didn't even know who the fuck JC even was--- the number comes to somewhere roughly between 96 and 98 billion that were sent to hell ... more than half of which never even had a chance because they had no idea your fictional godboy even existed. But you'll find some ludicrous way around that won't you.

Or just make up some unprovable claim like you just made above:
"... the concept of original sin is completely just;"

Oh!? it is just?! O well, thanks for clearing that up for me. I say there is no possible way it could be just, but since YOU said it is completely just - than certainly it must be. Despite all the massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.

O that's right. I forgot ... "JUST" as defined by Statler's special dictionary and god's special rules.


O and by the way, several of your brothers-in-christ (Bob Jones comes to mind) claim to have died and gone to heaven and even paid witness to the 98% fact I was telling you about. Your own people admit that only the uber-elite are going to heaven. Basically your god committed genocide when he created the human race when he actively, wantonly condemned nearly everyone to eternal damnation.

Your religion is utter stupidity and you, the self-proclaimed sheep, kissing the ass of a self-absorbed dictator who could never come close to loving you as much as he loves himself!