Non-muslim terriorist kills 84 in Norway.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, You Christians (all 38000 denominations of you) agree on some things. You're right, nothing to see here, not even the hint of confusion. What bullshit. Is the literal account of creation and the flood religiously necessary for you? If it is, bet it's not hard to find a christian who thinks it is not. No big deal right, I mean, god didn't have to create us, and the flood didn't have to happen, to be a christian right?

What Church do you belong to, if you don't mind my asking, what denomination, rather?

(And yes, I am on drugs, almost as a rule.)

[Statler Waldorf]

Yes, You Christians (all 38000 denominations of you) agree on some things. You're right, nothing to see here, not even the hint of confusion. What bullshit. Is the literal account of creation and the flood religiously necessary for you? If it is, bet it's not hard to find a christian who thinks it is not. No big deal right, I mean, god didn't have to create us, and the flood didn't have to happen, to be a christian right?

So now it is 38,000 denominations? You guys need to get your facts straight, that number is all over the place. Christ's teachings about loving one's neighbor and enemy and not committing murder are pretty easily derived from scripture so your point is still rather silly. As to how these murders relate to Noah’s flood is beyond me, looks like just another red herring.

I am a Reformed Baptist.

That's unfortunate if you really are on drugs.

[The Grand Nudger]

Are the myriad disagreements in modern christianity all red herrings? Why is that? You could always WIKI the number if you like Statler..(I know I did. lol)

[Shell B]

Did you read what I wrote? I said there are Christians who have wronged other people.

Oh, yes. I did read it. You said that he would have been going against the teachings of his religion, implying that he was not a "real Christian." I responded accordingly.

I just do not believe there is any evidence this man was a Christian. Claiming to be a police officer does not make you one either, just to play along with your analogy.

I said a police officer, not a fraud. The analogy is, a man is working as a police officer. He is employed as such, legitimately. He kills someone out of anger. Does that mean he was never a police officer? Quit dodging.

Scripture says there are certain finger prints of the Holy Spirit's saving work, and those are the fruit of the spirit. This man doesn't seem to display any of those things, so it's a safe bet that he does not possess saving grace at this time. We will never agree on this matter though because we have completely different ideas of what it means to actually be a Christian.

Let's say he is a christian and there is a god (this is a hypothetical, don't give me shit about it later. I am not agnostic.). Then, let's say god told him to do it. That it was god's will. You have no way of knowing this, so why inject what is essentially your opinion when you can't know god's plan?

God's declared will is for men to love their enemies, not commit murder and to forgive others, so it's obvious this man was violating God's legal will.

According to the book you get that supposed legal will from, god has ordered men to kill other men, women and children. So, it is obvious that it is possible, according to your beliefs, that god ordered this man to do what he did. Of course, he is making no such claim to my knowledge, but I can't understand why you do not see the contradiction here. God says, kill all these assholes and steal whoever is left and then Christians say, "God wants us to love each other." What the fuck? Are you really surprised that people argue against that sort of belief system?

[Judas BentHer]

Claiming to be a Christian does not make you one.

As you prove repeatedly by your own conduct. I appreciate your honesty.

I did do my research, and I have concluded that CIM is far from Biblical Christianity, just like most people would conclude.

What? It's not my fault I have to repeat things that you don't seem to understand.

Oh I understand perfectly well that you selectively read and interpret your Bible in such a way as you can bear to think it's verses are not racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted and elitist.

Christians can't even find peace among their own, due to the sectarian conflict and bias that cleaves the alleged teachings of the Christ apart. And amid all those groups claiming each one is the only "true" faith, they all hold one thing in common. They all imagine they're "Biblical Christians". Which they are, as they represent even in their infighting racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry and deep seated pride, that one of the 7 deadly sins.

[Statler Waldorf]

Are the myriad disagreements in modern christianity all red herrings? Why is that? You could always WIKI the number if you like Statler..(I know I did. lol)

If they don't have anything to do with the shooter's actions and the topic at hand then yes they are red herrings.

Oh, yes. I did read it. You said that he would have been going against the teachings of his religion, implying that he was not a "real Christian." I responded accordingly

I was not implying those people were not real Christians, I was implying they were going against the teachings of their religion, which they were.

I said a police officer, not a fraud. The analogy is, a man is working as a police officer. He is employed as such, legitimately. He kills someone out of anger. Does that mean he was never a police officer? Quit dodging

I agree that would not make the guy no longer a police officer (even though he’d probably lose his job and no longer be one); however you are begging the question, your analogy assumes the person is a police officer to begin with. That’s the very question we are discussing, how do we know this guy was a Christian to begin with?
I think a better analogy would be something that is defined by beliefs and actions much like Christianity is, not an occupation like a police officer. So let’s say someone claims to be a conservative republican. However, after claiming this, the person comes out and says they are pro-choice, anti-gun, support big government and social welfare, supports higher taxes, support affirmative action, and votes for liberal democrats. Is this person really a conservative republican? Of course not, their actions and ideology is completely contrary to the ideology that is conservatism. So that is all I am saying, the shooter may have claimed to be a Christian, but his actions and beliefs seem to prove he was not one.

Let's say he is a christian and there is a god (this is a hypothetical, don't give me shit about it later. I am not agnostic.). Then, let's say god told him to do it. That it was god's will. You have no way of knowing this, so why inject what is essentially your opinion when you can't know god's plan?

I would know that he was lying because one of the core teachings of Christianity is that God’s revelation has ceased, so if he had claimed that God had revealed something to him he would be taking a position that was anti-Christian. You are confusing God’s decreed will and His efficacious will, we can know His decreed will because it is taught to us in scripture, it is this will we are not supposed to violate. Nobody is even able to violate His efficacious will because it is everything that comes to pass.

According to the book you get that supposed legal will from, god has ordered men to kill other men, women and children. So, it is obvious that it is possible, according to your beliefs, that god ordered this man to do what he did. Of course, he is making no such claim to my knowledge, but I can't understand why you do not see the contradiction here. God says, kill all these assholes and steal whoever is left and then Christians say, "God wants us to love each other." What the fuck? Are you really surprised that people argue against that sort of belief system?

Sure I can see why people can be confused. God’s ordering of Israel to rage war was just that, a direct order to Israel. God is no longer revealing Himself that way to man since we are now living in the New Covenant, so anyone who says God revealed something to them is mistaken or being deceptive.

Oh I understand perfectly well that you selectively read and interpret your Bible in such a way as you can bear to think it's verses are not racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted and elitist.

Christians can't even find peace among their own, due to the sectarian conflict and bias that cleaves the alleged teachings of the Christ apart. And amid all those groups claiming each one is the only "true" faith, they all hold one thing in common. They all imagine they're "Biblical Christians". Which they are, as they represent even in their infighting racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry and deep seated pride, that one of the 7 deadly sins.

First of all you obviously do not understand what Christian denominationalism means, none of them claim to be the only “true” faith, they just disagree on doctrinal issues or church government issues but they all agree on Christian dogma.

Secondly, the 7 deadly sins never appear in the Bible.

Lastly, given your worldview, why would all of those things (racism etc) be morally wrong? Please be specific because I am interested to hear how you determine wrong from right. Thanks.

[Epimethean]

'First of all you obviously do not understand what Christian denominationalism means, none of them claim to be the only “true” faith, they just disagree on doctrinal issues or church government issues but they all agree on Christian dogma.'

Rubbish. They disagree to the point of claiming that only a select number from a select faith will get into heaven and that the rest will either go to purgatory or worse.

[Shell B]

You know, I just had a weird moment. I am sitting here bashing Wikipedia and then I did a search on Holocaust education and found my article about Holocaust Revisionism cited as a reference on the Wikipedia page. Therefore, I now think Wikipedia is a good source on the topic, even though that page is a mess.

[Epimethean]

Shell B sellin' out!

[Shell B]

I didn't do it. I will not take credit for that page. It reads terribly and even my personal emails are not that bad.

Back on topic . . .