Iran nuclear program... a "new provocation"

[Ashendant]

Everything you need to know about Israel the jokes start at about 0:40

[Autumnlicious]

The "difference" between Iran and the US, up to pre-Bush years, was that America claimed to only use nuclear weaponry as a deterrant and never a first strike. That said, it elevated the US to a target in addition to any other secondary target for any nation wishing to use nuclear weapons, as their use would bring down both US and their target's wrath.

Iran, on the other hand, has made it's intention clear to destroy Israel, finances terrorist organizations and has long and provably been a poor world actor and more akin to a rogue state.

Their aims to develop nuclear technology, in light of such, is a thinly veiled attempt at developing a full scale nuclear weapon. Their frequent missile tests are quite indicative of such. Furthermore, the Iranian regimes arrest, torture and murder of their own citizens during the disputed elections shows they don't care about their own citizens.

What possible, possible humanity can anyone not affiliated with Iran expect, in light of such?

There is nothing good that can come of letting Iran near anything, let alone the destructive and dirty radiation of a nuclear warhead.

Don't any of you idiots remember what they did to their own people during the Iran-Iraq war? The Ayatollah said he would never enter into negotiations, endured such high casualties, and did a turn face.

And those casualties? Mostly youth, forced to run into automatic weapon fire as living shields. Children, women, mowed down by Iraqi troops trying to desperately push again a living wall of flesh.

They succeeded, in some cases and failed in others.

As I said, nothing good can come of Iran and nuclear technology.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Iran is a sovereign nation is it not?

Putting myself in their place; The US ,or any other country tells us we cannot have nuclear weapons because of what we might do with them. My response would be to tell the US and anyone else to go fuck itself.

Iran is just dick swinging. Their government is acutely aware that if Iran used even one nuclear weapon on any other country, Iran would not be bombed into the stone age, Iran would cease to exist.


The US has been looking for an excuse to go to war with Iran for years.An excuse will be found about the time it is finished in Afghanistan..

[Spectrum]

Iran is a sovereign nation is it not?

Putting myself in their place; The US ,or any other country tells us we cannot have nuclear weapons because of what we might do with them. My response would be to tell the US and anyone else to go fuck itself.

Iran is just dick swinging. Their government is acutely aware that if Iran used even one nuclear weapon on any other country, Iran would not be bombed into the stone age, Iran would cease to exist.


The US has been looking for an excuse to go to war with Iran for years.An excuse will be found about the time it is finished in Afghanistan..

Exactly. If they really were developing WMD's/Nukes, then why are they developing their nuclear program openly?
Also, do we have the right to disallow them the use of modern technology? Energy is a top priority in an industrialized nation (assuming that is what Iran wants).

I want to see the proof of these nuclear arsenals that the talking heads claim exist. It is easy enough to catch Iran turning this program into something sinister. It isn't as though Iran have the funding to build a monolith of a station underground solely for nuclear weapons. Even if they did, they would no longer have the resources to continue post-militaristic actions (you kind of use up your poor resources with an undetectable station). The only support of the talking heads claims that I have heard is scare tactics. I do not see a valid reason to believe Iran is planning to nuke everyone. What would that accomplish for them anyway??

I can however see them attacking Israel. I do not support Israel's narcissistic thuggery, but it would be bad for the U.S., as the U.S. would surely get involved. More debt, more resource-thinning.

Also, I am not so sure that there is only one faction within Iran. We seem to assume that all of the leaders are evil bastards who sacrifice their nation's resources to kill a few Israelites. It is perfectly possible for nationalists to overthrow the villains and initiate a campaign for the development of their country. Honestly, how reliable is our media in these matters? I rather not listen to the doomsday bullshit...

[Judas BentHer]

Iran insists its nuclear programme is for purely peaceful purposes.

Hezbollah,The Islamic Revolutionary Guard, the government assault on students committed to an anti-government protest at the University of Tehran in 2009, demonstrate just the opposite.

Nuclear power be it for domestic utilities providers or in military defense,is no longer an exclusive held by the United States. Other nations have the power that would permit them to turn any target they choose to dust at the press of a button. Iran isn't deserving of such power. The government can't even demonstrate peaceful intent in the governance of it's own people, so how can the world ever accept the lie that a nuclear proliferation program of any kind by Iran is solely for peaceful purposes?

Especially with Iran's strategic location as a direct threat to Israel and any and all targets Iran may set it's sights on, in order to establish their ideal authority over their perceived enemies. With a nuclear weapon, it would only be a matter of time, a very short time before the world realized Iran having said in 2011, it's nuclear programme is for purely peaceful purposes, was a lie.


CBS NEWS: February 11, 2009

Iran President: Israel Will Soon Disappear

(CBS/AP) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear.

"This regime, thanks to God, has lost the reason for its existence," Ahmadinejad told a crowd of thousands gathered at a rally in support of the Palestinians in the capital Tehran.

"Efforts to stabilize this fake (Israeli) regime, by the grace of God, have completely failed... You should believe that this regime is disappearing," he said.

Ahmadinejad also called Israeli leaders a "group of terrorists" and threatened any country that supports the Jewish state, as millions of Iranians took to the streets for anti-Israel protests.

"You imposed a group of terrorists ... on the region," Ahmadinejad said, addressing the U.S. and its allies. "It is in your own interest to distance yourself from these criminals... This is an ultimatum. Don't complain tomorrow."
(Excerpt Source)

[Autumnlicious]

Iran is a sovereign nation is it not?

True, and like any other sovereign nation, they can always claim the right to slaughter their own citizens, international law not withstanding.

Putting myself in their place; The US ,or any other country tells us we cannot have nuclear weapons because of what we might do with them. My response would be to tell the US and anyone else to go fuck itself.

First off, go fuck yourself.

Now second off, had you paid attention the pre-Bush doctrines, the United States stated clearly that they would only use nuclear weapons in a counterstrike. Foreign policy implications immediately make the United States a target for any power wishing to use nuclear armaments against any other entity. Now, that has changed given the neo-cons, but several decades of foreign policy don't simply evaporate overnight given some new jackasses in the White House.

Thirdly, consider what Iran has done in the last 30 years. Or have you simply lost your mind and forgotten what they did.
REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%...n_protests

They have not changed. They show no signs of changing. They are about as trustworthy as Jared Lougher with an automatic weapon and twice as crazy. And any fool stupid enough to argue "sovereign rights" has no business dealing with foreign powers, let alone deserving of the rights to advocate for gun ownership.

This is a matter of trust and sanity. Something that seems strangely out of place on this thread, with morons postulating that it is "only for peaceful means."

Have you forgotten what they did only a year ago? Honestly, I am shocked.

Shocked by the sudden appearance of "forgetting" horrific actions, a forgetting well mocked by us of the theists and their bloody crusades and jihads.

Iran is just dick swinging. Their government is acutely aware that if Iran used even one nuclear weapon on any other country, Iran would not be bombed into the stone age, Iran would cease to exist.

Further bullshit detected. Let's go back to the Iran-Iraq war.

On 21 June 1982 Khomenini proclaimed in a speech that Iran would invade Iraq and would not stop until an Islamic Shia republic was set up in that country.[63] The decision to invade Iraq was taken after much debate within the Iranian government.[73] One fraction comprising Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi, the Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Velayati, President Ali Khamenei and the Army Chief of Staff General Ali Sayad Shirazi urged that now that all of Iranian soil had been liberated to accept the Iraqi ceasefire offer rather embark upon an invasion that was likely to take a heavy toll on Iran's youth and with uncertain prospects for victory.[73] In particular, General Shirazi was opposed to the invasion of Iraq on logistical grounds and said he was considering resignation if "unqualified people continued to meddle with the conduct of the war".[73] On the other side, there was a hardline fraction led by clerics on the Supreme Defence Council, whose leader was the politically powerful Speaker of the Majlis Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani who favored continuing the war until the Baath were overthrown.[73] Khomeini sided with the hardliners.[73]

And later on, despite Khomeini stating he would never agree to a ceasefire:

In a radio address, an announcer read out a statement by Khomeini, in which he expressed his deep displeasure and reluctance about accepting the ceasefire by saying:
"Happy are those who have departed through martyrdom. Happy are those who have lost their lives in this convoy of light. Unhappy am I that I still survive and have drunk the poisoned chalice...".

Give them nuclear weapons and they'll sacrifice their youth brigades against even larger, better prepared titans than Iraq. Or have you forgotten the arms superiority the Iraqis enjoyed, until they found out how bloody minded their opposition truly was? Wasting entire battalions of youth and children to clear minefields in a wave of bloody, torn human flesh.

Until the government of Iran changes for the better, it is madness to even trust in their apparent "sincerity".

The US has been looking for an excuse to go to war with Iran for years.An excuse will be found about the time it is finished in Afghanistan..

So you would sell us all down the damned river controlled by neo-cons and religious tyrants alike, just to spite the US's desires for war or the Iranian clerical desire for a holy war?

The US is guilty, yes, of a great many monstrous misdeeds and terror attacks. But it has yet to match close up with the even remotely similar insanity of the Iranian regime.

Furthermore, with respect to Spectrum, your speculation as to their openness is retarded, and here's why: terror and posturing. The Islamic Republic of Iran's dialogue and announcements, starting from the Supreme leader all the way down, have long been studded with statements as to their next move. They make no secret of their actions as they are secure in their power. Look at their history -- their only "defeat" was in failing to take over Iraq, and they've managed to whitewash the Iraq-Iran war in a manner that would make the Chinese government blush.

A country without a smarting defeat is an overconfident one and one that certainly has good reason to believe it can proceed with impunity. Furthermore, have you been under a rock?
REF: http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=243279

There are more news articles, have to find them later...

[Spectrum]

+ Proof that Iran is the devil +

If they are so dangerous, why have we not bombed their ass? You make it so simple, that it is foolery not to attack them. Are they really developing nukes? Are they not allowed modern technology?

EDIT: I find it very convenient that if news talking heads and politicians whine about Iran's supposed WMD's/Nukes (where are the photos?), then the people will support the forceful ceasing of Iran's nuclear program. Then no one can really find out if the uranium (it takes more than what they have stockpiled to nuke us or Israel by the way) was to be used for peaceful purposes. Barring Iran from development seems to be the best way to pat yourself for being a nuke-halting hero. It does not matter whether or not you are correct.

[Autumnlicious]

+ Proof that Iran is the devil +

If they are so dangerous, why have we not bombed their ass? You make it so simple, that it is foolery not to attack them. Are they really developing nukes? Are they not allowed modern technology?

EDIT: I find it very convenient that if news talking heads and politicians whine about Iran's supposed WMD's/Nukes (where are the photos?), then the people will support the forceful ceasing of Iran's nuclear program. Then no one can really find out if the uranium (it takes more than what they have stockpiled to nuke us or Israel by the way) was to be used for peaceful purposes. Barring Iran from development seems to be the best way to pat yourself for being a nuke-halting hero. It does not matter whether or not you are correct.

That is unfair and you know it. Furthermore, it makes little sense to go on the offensive given current geo-politics, as there are economic trading partners and other powers that see virtue in the current balance of power, like it made little sense to invade Iraq, except to placate the military-industrial complex.

Also, asking about the foolery of attacking them is naive, considering that under the pretenses you laid out, we should've intervened during the electoral protests.

Iraq found out the hard way that attacking them directly only coheres them together, allowing clerics to exploit base tribalism to recohere.

I am uncertain as to the best solution, but taking out hard-to-obtain resources, like nuclear researchers, from Iran's hands seems to be the viable one at the moment. In this case, depriving them of resources prolongs their work and may, just may, prolong their work long enough for their more moderate and sane elements to effect a change.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

First off, go fuck yourself.

Moros Old boy, I did not insult you personally, ,and in fact can't remember the last time I did

My opinion may be contentious,but it is not irrational and is sincere. I do not expect ad hominems from a moderator. Double standards and all that.



-and you accuse others of jingoism



I'm disappointed in you. That is all I have to say on this topic.

[Autumnlicious]

Moros Old boy, I did not insult you personally, ,and in fact can't remember the last time I did

I was reacting to the rather silly proposition of imagining yourself as a country and then telling another one to "fuck off" in human terms. I found it quite annoying, in fact, as any "virtual" entity can tell another to fuck off.

For example, Ghana can "tell" other countries to fuck off as they imprison and execute their homosexual populace.

Ergo, when I see things like that, I plainly and simply tell the idiot to "fuck off" as they're throwing only a mindless platitude that anyone and anything can justifiably state while indulging in monstrous or mundane actions.

My opinion may be contentious,but it is not irrational and is sincere. I do not expect ad hominems from a moderator. Double standards and all that.

Anyone is free to pepper in ad hominems as long as their argument can stand sans them. Mine does.

What is not ok is what a persons "argument" is purely or mostly "You're a poo-poo head." If I've placed too much of that in my posts, then I apologize.

-and you accuse others of jingoism

I have supported my accusations and attempted to emphasize the geo-political aspects and pragmatic policies as offered through statecraft. I am in no way "for America" any more than I am "for Iran" on basis of their existence. I am for, however, looking at the actions taken by each, and evaluating the standards offered through both.

The first may be lacking and criminal in an economic and political sense of conviniance, while the other willfully sacrifices their own young children to run barefoot across motherfucking minefields.

Perhaps that is lost upon you, but it certainly is not lost upon me.

All in all, no hard feelings. At least from my side, which is all I can control.