A call for sanity - Council of Ex Muslims

[leo-rcc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZjIK7yZDw

[Citereh]

Hey Leo,

Just to clarify. You agree with the general message of this video?

That because not all Muslims are the same in there views on Islam and it's teachings we (the people of democratic countries) should tolerate its "fascist" ideologies?

Kind Regards,

Citereh

*Just realised this is quite an old thread, I'm supprised there has been no response to it*

[leo-rcc]

Hey Leo,

Just to clarify. You agree with the general message of this video?

That because not all Muslims are the same in there views on Islam and it's teachings we (the people of democratic countries) should tolerate its "fascist" ideologies?

Is that the message you got from this video? Because that is definitely not the message I got from it.

[Citereh]

The message I got was that the featured ex-muslim is imploring people to see not all Muslims and their religion as "bad" or "evil" due to the variances in their beliefs in Islam and said teachings.

He criticises extreme right groups such as the BNP and the Neo-Nazi's and claims that their hatred is based on anti-islamic propaganda and misconceptions on the religion.

Also he appears to be promoting peace and equality for all whilst on the other hand defending Islam and it's teachings.

That is the message the video gives me, I am sincere when I ask you to point it out to me if I have not understood or missed an essential piece of information here.

Kind Regards,

Citereh

[leo-rcc]

For a start, have you watched the entire video? Because it was not one person. What the makers of the video are conveying is that like themselves they are critical of Islam, but the generalization and vilification of decent hardworking Muslims in our counties is not only not constructive but works as an enabler for right wing parties to spread more hatred towards ordinary Muslims.

In no way shape or form do any of the persons in this video defend Islam, but they do defend the right for Muslims to practice their religion.

[Citereh]

The person narrating the video is one person, no?

Seeing as you've have already taken an arrogant stance towards my sincere questioning of your post I shall return the same courtesy in kind.

For a start, have you watched the entire video?

I shall re-buke that condesending rhetorical question you made by simply asking. Did you even listen to the entire video? As the person narrating it clearly is one person giving his opinion on the behalf of others with or without that group of persons permission on a very broad subject.

but the generalization and vilification of decent hardworking Muslims

This statement I do not doubt to be true as I work with a Muslim who is indeed decent within context of our societies defined limits and is indeed hardworking.

but works as an enabler for right wing parties to spread more hatred towards ordinary Muslims

The main so called "enablers" for right wing parties in my opinion are:

The mainstream medias incessant desire to portray any person, group, or community no matter their religious believes or socio-economic background in a negative light where possible and for profit.

The muslims themselves who I would call "active" muslims rather than "passive" muslims who have been waging Jihad since the very birth of Islam and by doing so are contributing to this so called "racist" hatred of the dealth cult which is Islam.

Lastly and most importantly is the foundation of their faith, the Qu'ran and Sunnah (Ahadiths). These integral pillars of their faith are the very reason why right wing organisations such as the BNP and EDL to name just two "hate" Islam. As much as I disagree with the general politics of these two organistions, their underlying objection to Islam is very valid.

In no way shape or form do any of the persons in this video defend Islam, but they do defend the right for Muslims to practice their religion.

This statement contradicts itself. How can you say "their not defending that religion but are defending their right to practice it" i.e teach it, live it and in some cases die by it. That IS defending that religion.

It's like saying I do not agree with the Catholic church and its ideologies but I am ok with them teaching people that babies that die at birth go to hell as they have not been baptized. Or as later taught (due to outrage from their believers) go to limbo for a time.

You cannot disagree with a predefined unchangable ideology without disagreeing with the teachings of that ideology. Just like I cannot say I am a muslim but I do not belive in what Islam (the Qu'ran and Sunnah) teaches, it is contradictory.

Also I know of many ex-muslims such as Ali Sina, Robert Spencer, Salman Rushdie and Wafa Sultan just to name a few well known examples. That would completely and utterly object to this forced politically correct notion that we may not agree with their ideology but we have to let them, teach, preach and act upon it in democratic countries which value your equality, freedom of speech, human rights etc.

Please see the manifesto for the Council of ex-muslims:

http://ex-muslim.org.uk/manifesto/

You will see that if you know of anything that Islam teaches, you will also understand then that the Council of ex-muslims manifesto goes against everything Islam stands for. Therefore they cannot support them in principle and makes a mockery of those very principles if this video is truely endorsed by them. Islam's teachings are the very reason they are most likely now EX-MUSLIMS.

So no sir I do not agree with you if you are to answer that this video is attempting to honestly convey a message of needed tolerance towards the politically fascist ideology which is Islam, and we should in-fact question the authenticity of the author of this contemptible video.

Kind Regards,

Citereh

[KichigaiNeko]

I only disagree with the niqab. And the abuse of women as seen in Australia more frequently than should be necessary in the name of a persons (read insecure inadequate male)religious belief..

[Citereh]

Hey Kich,

The niqab is a topic which to this day is still argued fiercely about by muslims alike all over the world, as certain verses of the Qu'ran and the Sunnah give different interpretations of what is required of women on this specific subject but according to their scriptures it is required....and yes it is wrong.....very wrong.

Reference below:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/007-veils.htm

Kind Regards,

Citereh

[Tiberius]

Forcing a woman to wear clothing against her will is wrong. There is nothing wrong with the clothing itself, or the act of wearing it...

[leo-rcc]

So no sir I do not agree with you if you are to answer that this video is attempting to honestly convey a message of needed tolerance towards the politically fascist ideology which is Islam, and we should in-fact question the authenticity of the author of this contemptible video.

The video is not conveying a tolerance to the ideology of Islam, it is conveying that you should not tar all Muslims with the same brush. And I don't give a toss that you don't agree, you asked me if I agreed with the video and I do.