Arguing with friend on whether we're cult-like

[MilesTailsPrower]

Cults deal with RELIGION, we're not religious. Welcome :d

[TheAtheistTroll]

Tuba players are more of a cult than Atheists

[The Grand Nudger]

Atheism: The Cult of Disagreement (about god, and everything else, matter of fact, whatever the atheist next to me says is wrong by default)

[Minimalist]

Tuba players are more of a cult than Atheists

And clumsy fuckers, too!

[Cinjin]

Regarding OP:

Unsubstantiated claims by an uninformed wind-bag.


Spewing out that pseudo-enlightenment drivel is probably nothing more than her own need to stroke her own over-inflated sense of superiority and very likely, an attempt to mask the fact that she herself has not yet come to grips with her own beliefs, values, and/or direction in life.

Next time this comes up, tell your friend she'd make an excellent christian with all that arrogance she's carrying around.

Than ignore her. Ignorance deserves no audience.

[The Grand Nudger]

Meh, there is something to be said here, I believe that the op identified the "friend" as an agnostic. Consider this, smears against anyone who does not at least allow god to exist are so pervasive in our society that those who belong (or are marginally affiliated with) the smeared group also parrot the party lines. Frightening isn't it.

[Lauren]

Meh, there is something to be said here, I believe that the op identified the "friend" as an agnostic.

I think she's atheist, she just doesn't like the word. She thinks people like me who label ourselves atheist are too obsessed with it.

[BloodyHeretic]

I said we're not a cult because there's no dogma, and she said that we have things we dogmatically believe, even though they might be correct we don't think them up for ourselves, just learn them from other atheists and go around repeating them. I want to think I'm a free thinker who is capable of understanding the world without just parroting high-profile atheists. She hurt my feelings, but I don't know what to say now, and I don't like fighting with friends it's upsetting.

"even though they might be correct we don't think them up for ourselves, just learn them from other atheists and go around repeating them." So she has a problem with learning from other people? She thought of everything she believes all on her own?

She doesn't sound that intelligent to me, for instance she seems intimidated by terms such as 'logical fallacy'. Don't worry about it is my advice.

[Paul the Human]

I think of it as two or three levels of atheism. Passive, like your friend... Active, like most of us... And Aggresive, like those who think religion should be banned (antitheists).

All are atheists, but the interest in studying the subject varies.

[Frosty]

I was arguing with a friend (implicit atheist, but simply labels herself "agnostic" or "don't care") over email who said that people such as myself (explicit atheist who tends to be quite vocal about it) are being cult-like.

It's possible that some atheists may act with cult-like behaviour, atheists come in lots of different flavours, I don't know you personally so cannot say if you act cult-like.

She wasn't suggesting atheism itself is a religion or cult, but simply that people who spend a lot of time talking about it, hanging out with other atheists, watching atheist YouTube videos, reading atheist books, donating to secular charities, and getting all riled up about religion are acting like we're in a cult. And places like TAM are our holy pilgrimages (I've never been to TAM - that was what started the argument, I was talking about wanting to go).

I guess you could say that in a trivial way it is kind of cult like if you behave like this, but I'd argue "So what?". Eating a Doughnut is an awful lot like eating fruit, the mechanisms of eating are the same and both Doughnut and Fruit are classified as food, but the differences between those 2 things are significant, one is more damaging to your health than the other.

The negative implications of being in an actual cult and something that superficially appears cult-like are quite different so I'd say that while the observation is maybe interesting I don't think it's very important.

Also she said we "talk funny" because we use terms like "logical fallacy" and "god of the gaps" which normal people (I don't know what 'normal people' are) don't use in conversation, and that we just parrot arguments by Richard Dawkins instead of thinking for ourselves, and we should just be quiet and act like "normal" atheists and agnostics and be nice. She also said that if I had kids (I don't yet) I'd probably be reading them Dawkins as bedtime stories to indoctrinate them.

There's been a fairly strong inverse correlation between higher education and religion (and some correlation between IQ and religion), that is to say people who are more educated are less likely to be religious, it doesn't surprise me that a lot of atheists are well read and have larger vocabularies. Many atheists do "parrort" Dawkins but I don't think any of Dawkins arguments are really "his" or original in any sense, he just words many existing arguments in more convincing ways that are easier for some to understand, I think that leads to being used more frequently.

If you have kids it's a possibility that you'll affect their religious beliefs, kids are impressionable and parents imprint themselves on kids, the best you can do when that day comes is try and remain neutral, you'll never avoid making any impression on your children, nor should you try, but indoctrination is bad both ways as far as I'm concerned, you'd be better of teaching them good critical thinking skills.

Are there any atheists like me here who get this? Does she have any valid points about us, or some of us? I know I enjoy listening to podcasts and following what's going on in the atheist visibility movement or atheist community or whatever you want to call it that doesn't sound pretentious. And I am aware of the standard kind of fallacies theists make in their repeated, unoriginal arguments but I don't think I'm incapable of thinking for myself.

I don't get it personally, I'm not very vocal about my atheism in real life apart from when the subject comes up and I'm asked my opinion.

I said we're not a cult because there's no dogma, and she said that we have things we dogmatically believe, even though they might be correct we don't think them up for ourselves, just learn them from other atheists and go around repeating them. I want to think I'm a free thinker who is capable of understanding the world without just parroting high-profile atheists. She hurt my feelings, but I don't know what to say now, and I don't like fighting with friends it's upsetting.

There is no atheist dogma because atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods, it's not possible for there to be dogma, anyone claiming there is, doesn't understand atheism.

We all like to think we're free thinkers but the problem is that most of our thoughts aren't original, they're derived, and there's nothing wrong with that. Whether you arrive at your position because all the logical steps were your own, or because someone else made the argument and you simply copied has absolutely no affect on it's truth value, try to concern yourself with believing in true things and reconsigning the false ones.