God Yahweh Allah was a volcano.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure, except that we know that the group which became "Hebrew" or "Jewish" depending on who you ask, were homegrown Canaanites. Recent (and some old hat stuff) evidence suggests that exodus is a mythical account, and part of a tradition of myths, that have been leveraged as revisionist history ( a concept you clearly understand, but about whose origins you seem unclear).

Sometimes a narrative really rings out to us. The exodus narrative (at it's heart) is one of those narratives. It's a damned good story. We have become emotionally attached to it. Still, there's no shame in saying that something is "just a story" until you have reason to believe otherwise. I'm not trying to stifle your desire to theorize or explain these things, only suggesting that you spend that time and ability working on something we actually need explanations for.

Let's take a look at what wiki has to say, shall we?

"Genesis is perhaps best seen as an example of "antiquarian history", a type of literature telling of the first appearance of humans, the stories of ancestors and heroes, and the origins of culture, cities and so forth.[16] The most notable examples are found in the work of Greek historians of the 6th century BCE: their intention was to connect notable families of their own day to a distant and heroic past, and in doing so they did not distinguish between myth, legend, and what we would facts.[17] Jean-Louis Ska calls the basic rule of the antiquarian historian the "law of conservation": everything old is valuable, nothing is eliminated.[18] Ska also points out the purpose behind such antiquarian histories: antiquity is needed to prove the worth of Israel's traditions to the nations (the neighbours of the Jews in early Persian Palestine), and to reconcile and unite the various factions within Israel itself"

Which was used to support the book of Exodus.

"The book of Exodus is not historical narrative in any modern sense.[11] Modern history writing requires the critical evaluation of sources, and does not accept God as a cause of events.[12] But in Exodus, everything is presented as the work of God, who appears frequently in person, and the historical setting is only very hazily sketched.[13] The purpose of the book is not to record what really happened, but to reflect the historical experience of the exile community in Babylon and later Jerusalem, facing foreign captivity and the need to come to terms with their understanding of God"

One could consider Exodus a sequel to the narrative nearest the end of Genesis (The suggestion is made that bones should be taken back to the holy land, packed up in Egypt and ready to go).

"Joseph, Jacob's favourite son, is sold into slavery in Egypt by his jealous brothers. But Joseph prospers, and when famine comes he brings his father and his brothers and their households, seventy persons in all, to Egypt, where Pharaoh assigns to them the land of Goshen.[Gen 46-47] Jacob calls his sons to his bedside and reveals their future to them[Gen 49] before he dies and is interred in the family tomb at Machpelah. Joseph lives to see his great-grandchildren, and on his death-bed he exhorts his brethren, if God should remember them and lead them out of the country, to take his bones with them. The book ends with Joseph's remains being "put in a coffin in Egypt."

The myths need only be consistent to each other, not reality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Exodus

(I'll defend Wiki until the day I die)

[Hannah]

Rhythm......what do you believe caused the 'plume of smoke by day and plume of fire by night' that ficticiously or not led the Hebrews out of Egypt? What do you believe was the 'mountain of God'? What was it they walked towards? What was it they set up camp at the base of? What was it they believed resided in the mouth of the mountain of god? What was it they set up a sacrificial altar at the base of and sacrificed animals to? What was it that Moses claimed to have ascended and become flushed red after getting too close to?

[The Grand Nudger]

That's just it, these things did not happen. Things that didn't happen need no further explanation.

This could have happened is not equal to This can be shown to have happened.

Here's a link for you, you can view CVA and then search for publications, they even have email addresses attached. If you wanted to really dive into the subject. I've also included a direct link to their publication on "Researcher Directions"
http://www.antiquities.org.il/article_It...ule_id=#as
http://www.antiquities.org.il/personal_eng.asp

[Hannah]

That's just it, these things did not happen. Things that didn't happen need no further explanation.

This could have happened is not equal to This can be shown to have happened.

That is a cop out. What is the missing word in the fictional or historical Exodus description of the 'mountain of god'?

[popeyespappy]

based on language and writing style

Pap. Our oldest fragments of the Torah - which includes the exodus bullshit story - are from the Greek Septuagint and date from the 3d century BC. The earliest Hebrew texts are the Dead Sea Scrolls which date from the mid 2d century BC at the earliest and a significant portion of those are in Greek and Aramaic anyway.

Frankly, that sounds like a "Hail Mary" to use a particularly unsuitable analogy for an atheist board! Translating stuff into Hebrew from Greek and then claiming that it is "early" seems like a real stretch.

Some of the anachronisms in the Exodus story are:

Anachronisms

The late origins of the Exodus story are evident also in a number of anachronisms which characterise it. For example, Pharaoh's fear that the Israelites might ally themselves with foreign invaders makes little sense in the context of the New Kingdom, when Canaan was part of an Egyptian empire and Egypt faced no enemies in that direction, but does make sense in a 1st millennium context, when Egypt was considerably weaker and faced invasion first from the Persians and later from Seleucid Syria.[26] Other anachronisms point to a period in the mid-1st millennium: Ezion-Geber, (one of the Stations of the Exodus), for example, dates to a period between the 8th and 6th centuries BCE with possible further occupation into the 4th century BCE,[27] while the place-names on the Exodus route which can be identified - Goshen, Pithom, Succoth, Ramesses and Kadesh Barnea - point to the geography of the 1st millennium rather than the 2nd.[28]

The quote above is from Wiki but it cites John Van Seters "Geography of the Exodus."

I don’t know Min. It is possible that enough examples of an older style of language survive in the story to identify its early origins. Plus your possible 8th century BC date isn’t all that far off from my possibly as old as 900 years BC one. None of that means the story wasn’t embellished both before and after that date range.

You’re certainly more the historian than I am. As such I’d like your opinion on the following hypothesis. I consider it a left leaning blend of Biblical minimal and maximal isms on the origins of Yahweh, monotheism, Exodus and other parts of the Old Testament story. I find it to be compatible with the views of Finkelstein and Silberman.

Yahweh originated as a god of Bedouins from the hills in the Edom region. The concept of monotheism was introduced to the followers of Yahweh through contact with 18th dynasty Egypt. It was brought by refugees (or their descendants) from Amarna following the death of Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten) and is the much embellished basis for the Exodus story.

These beliefs were brought further north by the Edom Bedouins after the Bronze Age collapse which included many of the Canaanite city states. A blending of the beliefs of the remnants of the Canaanites and new comers from the surrounding area occurred in what would become ancient Israel as the void left by the Bronze Age collapse was slowly filled. The blending took centuries and included pieces of mythology from Canaan, Bedouins, Egypt and the Babylonian/Samarian cultures. During this time both poly and monotheistic factions coexisted.

[downbeatplumb]

It would make sense to base a fantastical story around real events though.

The basis of most Dr who episodes is the same, take something real and 'magic it up'.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sounds like a bare-bones statement of the current state of affairs on the matter. This thread needs more Min, for sure. We're very near the limit of my knowledge on the subject, and I'm running out of ways to convey the message.[/align]

[Hannah]

Not about the volcano but just thought I'd throw it in....

Exodus...21And I will give this people favour in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty.

22But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put them upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians.

'spoil' meaning steal from....spoils of war....theft on leaving.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes we understand, you hate the ignorant thieving jews. ffs back off.

[Hannah]

Yes we understand, you hate the ignorant thieving jews. ffs back off.

I hate lies....I am a truth seeker no matter what the truth is or who it hurts. I posted this because I had read that the Habiru people had stolen from the Pharaoh. The Egyptians, according to the Bible, gave chase to the Hebrews when they left. This verse explains why.