God Yahweh Allah was a volcano.

[Hannah]

'The Ipuwer Papyrus is a single papyrus holding an ancient Egyptian poem. The Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt as afflicted by natural disasters and in a state of chaos, a topsy-turvy world where the poor have become rich, and the rich poor, and warfare, famine and death are everywhere. One symptom of this collapse of order is the lament that servants are leaving their servitude and acting rebelliously. The dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date between the late 6th dynasty and the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1850 BCE-1600 BCE)'

I did post this before. It seems people on here prefer to bitch rather than contribute.

[Minimalist]

By all means please read a full translation of the Ipuwer Papyrus.

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/ipuwer.htm


Especially this part which describes an invasion...not an exodus!

III

Indeed, the desert is throughout the land, the nomes are laid waste, and barbarians from abroad have come to Egypt.
Indeed, men arrive [. . .] and indeed, there are no Egyptians anywhere.

[Hannah]

What a nit picker! How pathetic that you're aiming to prove me wrong all the time.

Did I say it reflected the Exodus? No! You just made that assumption having not followed this thread properly. It portrays a moment in Egyptian history in which natural disasters were occuring and causing chaos. That is exactly what I have been suggesting happened just prior to the Exodus, creating the opportunity to flee with valuables. What better time to make a quick and profitable escape than when all hell has broken loose? Did you read the poem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus

The Ipuwer Papyrus is a single papyrus holding an ancient Egyptian poem. The Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt as afflicted by natural disasters and in a state of chaos, a topsy-turvy world where the poor have become rich, and the rich poor, and warfare, famine and death are everywhere. One symptom of this collapse of order is the lament that servants are leaving their servitude and acting rebelliously.

The dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date between the late 6th dynasty and the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1850 BCE-1600 BCE),[4] and appears to describe how the Hyksos took over Egypt. Both the Exodus and Thera interpretations (which can be combined with each other, and sometimes are) interpret the poem to record a historical event, which is disputed by some Egyptologists.

Some have interpreted the document as an Egyptian account of the Plagues of Egypt and the Exodus in the Old Testament of the Bible, and it is often cited as proof for the Biblical account by various religious organisations. While Enmarch himself rejects synchronizing the texts of the Ipuwer Papyrus and The Book of Exodus on grounds of historicity, in The reception of a Middle Egyptian poem: The Dialogue of Ipuwer.. he acknowledges that there are some textual parallels "particularly the striking statement that ‘the river is blood and one drinks from it’ (Ipuwer 2.10), and the frequent references to servants abandoning their subordinate status (e.g. Ipuwer 3.14–4.1; 6.7–8; 10.2–3). On a literal reading, these are similar to aspects of the Exodus account."

http://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2483502/posts

The Biblical plagues that devastated Ancient Egypt in the Old Testament were the result of global warming and a volcanic eruption, scientists have claimed. Researchers believe they have found evidence of real natural disasters on which the ten plagues of Egypt, which led to Moses freeing the Israelites from slavery in the Book of Exodus in the Bible, were based. But rather than explaining them as the wrathful act of a vengeful God, the scientists claim the plagues can be attributed to a chain of natural phenomena triggered by changes in the climate and environmental disasters that happened hundreds of miles away... which will be outlined in a new series to be broadcast on the National Geographical Channel on Easter Sunday. ...By studying stalagmites in Egyptian caves they have been able to rebuild a record of the weather patterns using traces of radioactive elements contained within the rock. They found that Rameses reign coincided with a warm, wet climate, but then the climate switched to a dry period... the arrival of the first plague, which in the Bible is described as the Nile turning to blood. Dr Stephan Pflugmacher, a biologist at the Leibniz Institute for Water Ecology and Inland Fisheries in Berlin, believes this description could have been the result of a toxic fresh water algae... One of the biggest volcanic eruptions in human history occurred when Thera, a volcano that was part of the Mediterranean islands of Santorini, just north of Crete, exploded around 3,500 year ago, spewing billions of tons of volcanic ash into the atmosphere.

[Minimalist]

What a nit picker! How pathetic that you're aiming to prove me wrong all the time.

Just so happens that you have been wrong all the time. Tell you what. Say something right and I'll point that out, too.

Can I be more fair than that?

[Hannah]

Been wrong all the time about what??? Seriously, if you can tell me I've been wrong all the time after reading that poem then.....

[Shell B]

Been wrong all the time about what??? Seriously, if you can tell me I've been wrong all the time after reading that poem then.....

...you must expect more than creative writing as proof.

[Minimalist]

Been wrong all the time about what??? Seriously, if you can tell me I've been wrong all the time after reading that poem then.....

You're wrong. There is NOTHING about an exodus there. In fact, as was pointed out before the "poem" ( and many scholars consider it to be nothing more than that ) talks about an "invasion" of barbarians rather than an "exodus" of them.

The papyrus we have is a New Kingdom copy of a much older work. The original story is dated to somewhere between the end of the 6th Dynasty ( the Old Kingdom) and the Second Intermediate Period ( prior to the New Kingdom.) This latter would put it in range of the Hyksos who were foreigners and could account for its popularity in the New Kingdom.

But it still doesn't help you with your fucking bible because the Hyksos were rulers... not slaves.

I have just posted a recent study in the Science section ( if you aren't afraid to go there) in which a long term drought has been detected as bringing about the end of the Old Kingdom in the midst of civil collapse.

[Hannah]

Min....did you read my last comment? Did you read the poem?

[Minimalist]

Of course I have read it. Do you think you are the first to trot that out as "evidence?"

Did you read the end? It is a philosophical discussion between Ipuwer and some god about the nature of chaos. This is why it is regarded as mere "literature" by many Egyptologists.

You have to understand, Hannah, that bible-thumpers will always see their 'god' in everything. They are highly motivated to make such representations. That is why they are unreliable as scholars.

The noted con artist, Simcha Jacobovici, took the Ahmose Stele and proclaimed that it matched the plague story and thus ( TA-DA) exodus was true.

Unfortunately for Simcah, we have translations of the Ahmose Stele:

http://www.therafoundation.org/articles/...gnofahmose

It describes a flood in a specific area and the pharaoh arrived with aid and assistance...doing a much better job than Bush did with Katrina, for example!

Alas, if you can read that you will find as much evidence for the 10 plagues as you have in Ipuwer.

Jacobovici is a known con man. Don't be like him.

[Hannah]

Of course I have read it. Do you think you are the first to trot that out as "evidence?"

Did you read the end? It is a philosophical discussion between Ipuwer and some god about the nature of chaos. This is why it is regarded as mere "literature" by many Egyptologists.

HOW COME IT'S OK FOR YOU TO MAKE UNFOUNDED STATEMENTS WHEN IT'S NOT OK FOR ME TO D0? YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THIS POEM BARES ANY REFERENCE TO ACTUAL EVENTS. BELIEVE. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU PULLED ME UP ON THAT? THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IT HAS GOT SOMETHING TO DO WITH NATURAL DISASTERS AT THE TIME AND NOT ALL ARE CHRISTIANS. THE TIMING FITS SANTORINI PERFECTLY. CAN YOU PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT?

You have to understand, Hannah, that bible-thumpers will always see their 'god' in everything. They are highly motivated to make such representations. That is why they are unreliable as scholars.

YOU SEEM EQUALLY HIGHLY MOTIVATED IN A PERSONAL WAY. I AM HIGHLY MOTIVATED TO SEEK OUT THE TRUTH.

The noted con artist, Simcha Jacobovici, took the Ahmose Stele and proclaimed that it matched the plague story and thus ( TA-DA) exodus was true.

Unfortunately for Simcah, we have translations of the Ahmose Stele:

http://www.therafoundation.org/articles/...gnofahmose

It describes a flood in a specific area and the pharaoh arrived with aid and assistance...doing a much better job than Bush did with Katrina, for example!

Alas, if you can read that you will find as much evidence for the 10 plagues as you have in Ipuwer.

Jacobovici is a known con man. Don't be like him.

NOW YOU'RE CALLING ME A CONMAN? GOOD GRIEF!

Warning: do not whatever you do suggest maybe the Bible contains some truth because, if you do, your name will be mud.

---

http://www.therafoundation.org/articles/...gnofahmose

Thanks for pointing that out to me. It's important to not discount evidence based on the prejudices of the source. Is this source acceptable for you?

'Goedicke cites important geological studies recently initiated by the Smithsonian Institution that should eventually clarify the question of when the eruption occurred in Egyptian terms. The excavation of well-stratified Egyptian sites, such as that of Kom Rabiya at Memphis, also promises to provide important new evidence for the question of the Egyptian date of the eruption in the near future. Major issues have been raised at this Congress regarding the validity of the scientific methods for evaluating the absolute date of the volcanic destruction of Thera. Until these questions are resolved, and until the new geological and archaeological evidence from Egypt is available, the evidence of the 'Tempest Stele' deserves consideration.'

So no need to keep badgering me for difinitive evidence as it would seem some might be arriving soon. In the meantime, I will give the subject the consideration it deserves.