Life sized replica of noah's ark currently under construction

[Anomalocaris]

Well, at least they seem to have solved the question of actually getting it to London. Let's hope that all the modernised things he had to do to make the voyage makes some people think about the Noah's Ark story and its implausibilities.

Sort of reminds me of an "experiment" by Egyptologist Marc Lehner in which he planned to use "Egyptian" technology to cut an obelisk out of the ground, transport to a site some distance away and raise it on a pedestal.

First they found that pounding granite with dolomite hammer stones did not work well...or at least fast...so they brought in jackhammers. next they found they could move the fucking thing with sleds and ropes so they brought in backhoes and flatbed trucks. Then they raised it with ropes and congratulated themselves for doing it with "Egyptian" technology.

A obelisk small enough to fit on a flat bed truck?? Contemptible! If you are going to fake it, at least make the fake spectacular!

[Minimalist]

Normally I'd agree Chuck but the failure on a miniature does kind of demonstrate the problem.

Japanese engineers from Waseda university tried to build a scale model of the Great Pyramid back in the 70's. They concluded it would have taken 1,000 years.

As someone wrote a while back: "Moving 100 one-ton stones is child's play compared to moving one 100-ton stone."

[The Grand Nudger]

When the Nile wasn't dumping sweet, sweet silt on the banks, the Egyptians weren't incredibly busy (less the building and conquering bits). Impressive, but doable considering the times. I've always been amused when people try to reenact this or that, because invariably it's some post-grad and his lackeys when what they need is Cletus, his brothers, cousins, and in-laws (obviously some overlap here).

[Minimalist]

Egyptologists insist on this equation for the Great Pyramid.


4th Dynasty Egyptians + Bronze Age technology + 20 years = Pyramid.


Obviously any term of the equation can be attacked. The "Ancient Aliens" crowd invents spacemen to do the job!

I prefer to consider the time factor.

There are an estimated 2.5 million stones in the GP.

2.5 million divided by 20 years = 125,000 stones per year.

125,000 stones divided by 365 days per year = roughly 342.5 stones per day that need to be placed.

342 stones per day divided by 24 hours per day = 14.25 stones per hour or roughly one stone every 4 minutes or so. Such a schedule is preposterous but it gets worse.

That's working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year for 20 years. It never gets dark. There is never an accident. There is never a sandstorm. No one ever has to take a dump and the workers go around the clock without sleep or food. If you hypothesize multiple shifts of workers you merely increase the logistical problems involved in supporting such a workforce and you haven't done anything about the darkness.

Now, Rhythm as you correctly point out the general idea is that the bulk of the labor force was drawn from the peasant force during the flood which lasts, let's say half the year just for the sake of argument. The Egyptologists are willing to stipulate a force of perhaps 8,000 permanent workers, masons and such who work all year round producing stones for the peasants to move when they show up. Fine, that will help some but you are still moving one stone every 2 minutes because you are only working six months per year. Then, you do have to account for the darkness so half of your work day is lost which means 1 stone every minute.

And we haven't remotely discussed building some kind of ramp system to move the stones to the top which one engineer noted would have been a bigger project than the pyramid itself!

T'is a problem because the pyramid is there. It is not a figment of someone's imagination.

[little_monkey]

Egyptologists insist on this equation for the Great Pyramid.


4th Dynasty Egyptians + Bronze Age technology + 20 years = Pyramid.


Obviously any term of the equation can be attacked. The "Ancient Aliens" crowd invents spacemen to do the job!

I prefer to consider the time factor.

There are an estimated 2.5 million stones in the GP.

2.5 million divided by 20 years = 125,000 stones per year.

125,000 stones divided by 365 days per year = roughly 342.5 stones per day that need to be placed.

342 stones per day divided by 24 hours per day = 14.25 stones per hour or roughly one stone every 4 minutes or so. Such a schedule is preposterous but it gets worse.

That's working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year for 20 years. It never gets dark. There is never an accident. There is never a sandstorm. No one ever has to take a dump and the workers go around the clock without sleep or food. If you hypothesize multiple shifts of workers you merely increase the logistical problems involved in supporting such a workforce and you haven't done anything about the darkness.

Now, Rhythm as you correctly point out the general idea is that the bulk of the labor force was drawn from the peasant force during the flood which lasts, let's say half the year just for the sake of argument. The Egyptologists are willing to stipulate a force of perhaps 8,000 permanent workers, masons and such who work all year round producing stones for the peasants to move when they show up. Fine, that will help some but you are still moving one stone every 2 minutes because you are only working six months per year. Then, you do have to account for the darkness so half of your work day is lost which means 1 stone every minute.

And we haven't remotely discussed building some kind of ramp system to move the stones to the top which one engineer noted would have been a bigger project than the pyramid itself!

T'is a problem because the pyramid is there. It is not a figment of someone's imagination.

If you would take the same approach on the Twin Towers in NYC, you'd get also some improbable scenario. And worse they no longer exist... must be a product of our imagination...

More seriously, you need to factor in the technology they knew at the times, such as levers and pulleys, and the use of animals like horses and camels to do the heavy lifting.

[Welsh cake]

A couple in the Netherlands built a half sized replica of noah's ark a few years ago and now are building a life sized replica so it can be sailed up the Thames at the 2012 London Olympics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...hames.html

Hope it sinks.

[Minimalist]

More seriously, you need to factor in the technology they knew at the times, such as levers and pulleys, and the use of animals like horses and camels to do the heavy lifting.

They insist there were no pulleys at the time and Egypt used some oxen in their fields but horses were way too valuable and camels were not domesticated until the first millenia which is a great annoyance to bible shits who think fucking "Abraham" was a camel jockey.

There is an English "expert" Dennis Cook? who goes to great lengths demonstrating Egyptian technology. Using small copper chisels to to smooth out a limestone block. Very impressive but it takes way too long to meet the schedule which the Egyptologists insist upon.


We know how the Twin Towers were built. We have pictures and movies of the cranes in operation.

There is not a single relief in all of Egyptian literature which shows pyramids being built.

[The Grand Nudger]

Too busy building the pyramids at breakneck pace to carve reliefs of building the pyramids at breakneck pace. It's really just moving the stones that's inconvenient. Quarrying was a pretty regular business from everything that I've read. It's nowhere near a stretch to imagine that they had some blocks laying about (or that masons pretty much carved stone for a living without delay). All in all an impressive feat, no matter how long it took them. Would be nice to find a sort of smoking gun on the timeframe though.

What is it that makes them hold themselves to the 20 years bit btw? King such and such bragging about how quickly he got a pyramid built? Not sure I'd trust that kind of source.

(I absolutely hate pyramidiots and their alien bit btw)

[Anomalocaris]

Egyptologists insist on this equation for the Great Pyramid.


4th Dynasty Egyptians + Bronze Age technology + 20 years = Pyramid.


Obviously any term of the equation can be attacked. The "Ancient Aliens" crowd invents spacemen to do the job!

I prefer to consider the time factor.

There are an estimated 2.5 million stones in the GP.

2.5 million divided by 20 years = 125,000 stones per year.

125,000 stones divided by 365 days per year = roughly 342.5 stones per day that need to be placed.

342 stones per day divided by 24 hours per day = 14.25 stones per hour or roughly one stone every 4 minutes or so. Such a schedule is preposterous but it gets worse.

That's working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year for 20 years. It never gets dark. There is never an accident. There is never a sandstorm. No one ever has to take a dump and the workers go around the clock without sleep or food. If you hypothesize multiple shifts of workers you merely increase the logistical problems involved in supporting such a workforce and you haven't done anything about the darkness.

Now, Rhythm as you correctly point out the general idea is that the bulk of the labor force was drawn from the peasant force during the flood which lasts, let's say half the year just for the sake of argument. The Egyptologists are willing to stipulate a force of perhaps 8,000 permanent workers, masons and such who work all year round producing stones for the peasants to move when they show up. Fine, that will help some but you are still moving one stone every 2 minutes because you are only working six months per year. Then, you do have to account for the darkness so half of your work day is lost which means 1 stone every minute.

And we haven't remotely discussed building some kind of ramp system to move the stones to the top which one engineer noted would have been a bigger project than the pyramid itself!

T'is a problem because the pyramid is there. It is not a figment of someone's imagination.

I'll extend your assumptions with the following, conservative additional assumptions:

1. It's say it takes a team of 10 stone pounders 1 working day to hack a stone out a quarry and roughly shape it. So it takes about 3500 men working the daylight hours to create the 350 blocks needed each day.

2. Let's say it takes another team of 20 men 30 minutes (including rest) to manhandle each stone out of the quarry onto the path to the pyramid construction sight, So each team can move about 20 stones a day out of the quarry. So it requires 170 teams or about 3500 more men to load quarried stones onto transportation path.

3. Let's say it takes another 1 tool man for every 5 stone pounders to keep a continuous supply of fresh tools available, and another bus boy for every 10 stone pounders to move the stone chips and keep the quarry clear, that's another 1050 men.

Putting it together, roughly speaking, 8050 workers are required at the quarry to turn out 350 1 tons, roughly finished stones ready for transport to the pyramids

4. Let's say the linear distance between pyramids and quarry is 1 mile, and a team of 10 men can move the stones half a mile an hour. This means each stone spends an average of 2 hours on the way to the pyramids, and there must be about 50 stones on the path at any one time, and 50 teams of 10 men, or 500 men, to pull the 350 stones from the guarry to the pyramid.

5. Let's say the linear distance up the ramps of the pyramid is on average also 1 mile, and it 20 men to move it up at 0.5 miles an hour. So there must be a total of 1000 men on the ramps to pull 350 stones up the ramps.

6. There needs to be a total of about 150 sleds to move the stones, since it takes a total of 6 hours to move each stone. Let's say that each sled lasts 3 trips, so 50 sleds need to be replaced or refurbished each day. Let's say it takes 20 men-days to acquire and move the timber, and build or replace each sled. That's 1000 men working to keep a steady supply of good sleds

7. Let's say it takes another team of 10 stone setters 10 minutes to set each stone, so each team can set 120 stones a day, and there needs to be about 3 such teams, or 30 stone setters, to set 350 stones a day.

Putting that together, roughly 3000 workers are required to move 350 stones a day from the quarry to the pyramid and set it.

So all together, a total of only about 11350 direct labor (8000 in the quarry, 2000 moving the stones, 350 setting the stones, 10000 to refresh the sleds) is needed to quarry, transport, and set 350 stones a day.

Now expending the logistics, say 1 person for every 5 men to cook, bring food, handle sanitary requirements, etc. So a total workforce of about 14000 men should be able maintain the tempo you stipulated by working just 12 hours a day 6 month a year.

Impressive, yet, but far short of preposterous.

[Rev. Rye]

When the Nile wasn't dumping sweet, sweet silt on the banks, the Egyptians weren't incredibly busy (less the building and conquering bits). Impressive, but doable considering the times. I've always been amused when people try to reenact this or that, because invariably it's some post-grad and his lackeys when what they need is Cletus, his brothers, cousins, and in-laws (obviously some overlap here).

Yes. The major condition sine qua non that these attempts completely ignore is an endless supply of expendable slave labor.
And why are we talking about the pyramids?