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RE: Ask the Christian
October 1, 2011 at 7:58 pm
(This post was last modified: October 1, 2011 at 7:59 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote:Umm, that passage isn't about human sacrifice. Jephthah offered his daughter to the Lord for lifelong service in chastity. Human sacrifice was forbidden under the law:
Um AND HE DID TO HER AS HE HAD VOWED
I admire your ability to so finely parse a phrase but the simple fact remains that if your bible bullshit were true ( which it isn't ) this would have been a HUMAN FUCKING SACRIFICE....the kid still ended up DEAD.
Quote:The Book of Judges describes Jephthah as leading the Israelites in battle against Ammon and, as the result of a rash vow, sacrificing his daughter after defeating the Ammonites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jephthah
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 1, 2011 at 8:13 pm
(This post was last modified: October 1, 2011 at 8:15 pm by lucent.)
(October 1, 2011 at 7:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Umm, that passage isn't about human sacrifice. Jephthah offered his daughter to the Lord for lifelong service in chastity. Human sacrifice was forbidden under the law:
Um AND HE DID TO HER AS HE HAD VOWED
I admire your ability to so finely parse a phrase but the simple fact remains that if your bible bullshit were true ( which it isn't ) this would have been a HUMAN FUCKING SACRIFICE....the kid still ended up DEAD.
Quote:The Book of Judges describes Jephthah as leading the Israelites in battle against Ammon and, as the result of a rash vow, sacrificing his daughter after defeating the Ammonites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jephthah
Yes, He offered her as a spiritual burnt offering to the Lord, to serve Him in chastity. Again, why do you think she was mourning her virginity? Why do you think the passage highlighted the fact that after he fulfilled his vow that she never knew a man? It's pretty obvious what is going on if you actually read the text. Again, human sacrifice was against Gods law. There is no way that would be acceptable.
And wikipedia as an authority on the bible? That's pretty hilarious.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 1, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Better than you, apparently.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 2, 2011 at 6:21 am
Quote:Deuteronomy 18:10
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer
That is definitely the heart of God. He does not want child sacrifice, otherwise he would have said it was a free for all. People however do not always act in accordence with God's commands. Not every scripture in the bible shows God's heart. So it is 100% sure God did not want Jephthah to sacrifice his child as an offering.
To the verse which was mentioned about God's judgment on the youths who mocked the prophet of God. That is God performing a judgment, not man offering a sacrifice. As a Christian we are told in the new testiment:
Rom 12:18-20 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. .. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
So a Christians part today is to just try to keep the peace, to try to maintain good relationships. But it says there is the provision for God's wrath. i.e. we don't take revenge on those who make them selves our enemies, but God if he deems it necessary can. It is also not suggesting that God is full of wrath all the time either. Becase the bible says God is "kind to the ungrateful and wicked". As Jesus said:
Luk 6:35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
Hey I love God he is awsome.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 2, 2011 at 8:02 am
Don't you xtians get this sort of debate on your own forums??
Wow...you are both making your own "followers of christ" look like idiots if you are on here arguing your belief and you book.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 2, 2011 at 8:23 am
(October 1, 2011 at 8:13 pm)lucent Wrote: Yes, He offered her as a spiritual burnt offering to the Lord, to serve Him in chastity. Again, why do you think she was mourning her virginity? Why do you think the passage highlighted the fact that after he fulfilled his vow that she never knew a man? It's pretty obvious what is going on if you actually read the text. Again, human sacrifice was against Gods law. There is no way that would be acceptable.
And wikipedia as an authority on the bible? That's pretty hilarious.
So where does it say in the bible that she was offered as a "spiritual"
burnt offering? Or that she suffered lifelong service in chasity?
It doesn't, it specifically stated that he vowed to offer up as a burnt offering the first thing that came though his door.(And the bible is very specific about what a burnt offering is)
And that he carried out his vow. Nothing else.
Or is this yet another example of christians re contextualising a nasty bit of the bible into happybunnies time?
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 2, 2011 at 1:32 pm
I'd like to see the text in its original language on this passage.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 2, 2011 at 1:38 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2011 at 1:38 pm by searchingforanswers.)
No one ever owns up for Jephthah's sacrificing his daughter. I can't count the bullshit excuses I've gotten for this one.
If I die and god is real, im so screwed.
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 2, 2011 at 7:02 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2011 at 7:12 pm by Justtristo.)
(October 1, 2011 at 8:13 pm)lucent Wrote: Yes, He offered her as a spiritual burnt offering to the Lord, to serve Him in chastity. Again, why do you think she was mourning her virginity? Why do you think the passage highlighted the fact that after he fulfilled his vow that she never knew a man? It's pretty obvious what is going on if you actually read the text. Again, human sacrifice was against Gods law. There is no way that would be acceptable.
And wikipedia as an authority on the bible? That's pretty hilarious.
I will happily quote Judges 11:29-40 from the Holman Standard Christian Bible which I own a copy.
Quote: The Spirit of the LORD came on Jephthah, who traveled through Gilead and Manasseh, and then through Mizpah of Gilead. He crossed over to the Ammonites from Mizpah of Gilead. Jephthah made this vow to the LORD: "If You will hand over the Ammonites to me, whatever comes out of the doors of my house to greet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites will belong to the LORD, and I will offer it as a burnt offering."
Jephthah crossed over to the Ammonites to fight against them, and the LORD handed them over to him. He defeated 20 of their cities with a great slaughter from Aroer all the way to the entrance of Minnith and to Abel-keramim. So the Ammonites were subdued before the Israelites.
When Jephthah went to his home in Mizpah, there was his daughter, coming out to meet him with tambourines and dancing! She was his only child; he had no other son or daughter besides her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes and said, "No! [Not] my daughter! You have devastated me! You have brought great misery on me. I have given my word to the LORD and cannot take [it] back.
Then she said to him, "My father, you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me as you have said, for the LORD brought vengeance on your enemies, the Ammonites." She also said to her father, "Let me do this one thing: Let me wander two months through the mountains with my friends and mourn my virginity."
"Go," he said. And he sent her away two months. So she left with her friends and mourned her virginity as she wandered through the mountains. At the end of two months, she returned to her father, and he kept the vow he had made about her. And she had never been intimate with a man. Now it became a custom in Israel [that] four days each year the young women of Israel would commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
It is clear from this particular passage that Jephthah "offered" his daughter as a burnt offering. Because that was the vow he had to Yahweh and he kept the vow after his daugther came back from "lamenting her virginity". Since I am guessing you are familiar with what a burnt offering is in the bible. Thus, we can be confident that Jephthah in this killed his daughter and then burnt her body as an offering to Yahweh.
Although I get a feeling this story was old when the book of Judges was written (probably in the 6th or 5th centuries B.C.E), which described why a certain custom came about, back in the days when it was custom for Israelites to "pass children through the fire" to the gods (including likely Yahweh who was likely the chief god of the Israelites).
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RE: Ask the Christian
October 2, 2011 at 7:10 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2011 at 7:15 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote:There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer
Tell it to fucking "Jepthah." He doesn't seem to have gotten the memo.
Quote:It is clear from this particular passage that Jephthah intended to offer his daughter as a burnt offering
No, asshole. It is clear that he killed the bitch because of his vow to his fucking god.
Your reading comprehension is on the low side, huh?
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