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The Free will Clause
September 20, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Ok i keep hearing the creationst "free will" clause if you will. Because for some reason "free will" is their answer to anything that happens bad against them. So ok if I'm understanding this right ( never really understood this when I was a thesit) that god gives us free will but sets the people he "loves" up to fail. First of all there is no evidence other than a buch of drunk guy's chilling around writing a book. (and remember there "wine" was sooo much more fermented then anything we have today. so these guys must have been really wasted. But continuing, he fails to let the people he loves know that the earth was not the center of the universe, or the earth was freaking round would have been nice. The idea of modern medicine, electricity, that beliving in him will cause war and kill off his "precious Children". Shit if i was to do that, they be taking my kids away from me. So why not give us this information to begin with and let us succeed instead of fail. don't you think that shit, people are being killed in his name, with the crusades don't you think that "god" would have come down and go hey you fucking idiots. these people done nothing wrong. stop killing them. and for my last point. now i did not live back in the day's of jesus obviously but. alot more people beleived in "god" back then, (even if it was the old testement god) they still believed. But the lack of believe and the "sin" nowdays, where is jesus now. why would he only come back to "take us up to this magical place" and not come back to help us in a very sinful time "according to the bible cause most of the world are not judeo-christians.. only most of america. I beleive this made up free will cop out is just an excuse for creationist to have a peace of mind for all the shit they are fucking up.. in my opinion
Bill Maher: If you believe that the world is going to come to an end - and perhaps any day now - does it not drain one's motivation to improve life on earth while we're here?
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 20, 2011 at 9:33 pm
if you are an atheist why is your username from a christian "musician?" (lack of a better word.)
If I die and god is real, im so screwed.
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 20, 2011 at 9:37 pm
ha i get that alot. but my name is toby and i'm not christian hence the xxx part of it..lol. and my best friend started calling me toby mac since i was so big on dc talk back during my thiest days, but i put the xxx on their when i broke from faith
Bill Maher: If you believe that the world is going to come to an end - and perhaps any day now - does it not drain one's motivation to improve life on earth while we're here?
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 20, 2011 at 9:39 pm
ah just wondering. agree with everything you said by the way.
If I die and god is real, im so screwed.
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 21, 2011 at 5:25 am
Free will is as much a myth as any other part of a religion. Doesn't exist.
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 21, 2011 at 5:32 am
Free will ...FROM WHAT to WHAT?
Bit of a joke! I am thinking that the xtians have been conned AGAIN!! 
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 21, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Nice rant xxx  Seems you went round the houses with that one!
So you mean that our fallen state and the choice we were given that led to it are used as an excuse for all the bad stuff that happens?
Then you mix in predetermination... that God knows the ending: that many will fail in their lifetime. That is: In the time allotted, they rejected his love.
You blame God for giving people the choice and not making everyone accept his love from the off.
A: You don't understand how love needs to be a choice.
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 21, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Fr0d0, that doesn't answer the question. I'm not big on the 'sins of the father' ideology, and neither, hopefully, are you.
For those of you unfamiliar, Fr0d0 is saying that since our ancestors sinned, we earned punishment. It doesn't make any sense, but it's all they have. He goes on to defeat his own argument in a circular way by essentially saying "God sees that you will be a sinner, so he sets you up to sin, so that you go to hell." Once again, stupidly, painfully wrong and inverted. But it's all they have.
@ElDinero:
I define free will as the ability of nature and nurture to decide what I will do. Therefore, I think we have free will, but I also think it's not really a decision. we are both correct.
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 21, 2011 at 3:40 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2011 at 3:40 pm by fr0d0.)
Good job it wasn't you asking the question then r-r-r-rennet - although you still seem to have no clue.
The bible story actually describes the human condition = fallible/ fallen. You didn't 'earn' it you are it.
"It's all they have" x2
...and that's the strongest argument you'll see from him 
*** If ignorance is bliss, how come more atheists aren't happy? ***
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RE: The Free will Clause
September 21, 2011 at 4:26 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2011 at 4:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
His big on the sins of the father. We're all under a curse.
If I sprinkle salt around myself, will it protect me? Hey, can god walk on holy ground?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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