Beating Children

[Shell B]

This might turn into a bit of a ramble or it might be short. My apologies if I go all over the place.

The main question I want to address with this thread is where the line is drawn between abuse and discipline. Is any hitting abuse or is it okay to paddle or spank your child? I leave certain scenarios out of the equation, such as a kid panicking in a dangerous situation and needing a light smack to get back into reality. What I am talking about is hitting as a means to frighten a child into behaving.

The reason I am asking people's opinions on this is a gauntlet I just ran on facebook. One of my clients -- a big name, but no reason to name it here because I really don't want to piss any more people off -- that has thousands of other freelancers just posted an article about corporal punishment in schools still being legal in 19 states. This next bit seems really odd to me: Out of at least six other people posting, I was the only one who was against it, despite the fact that the article outlined several cases where children needed to be hospitalized. These people got really pissed at me. One even suggested that it was good I don't hit children because I can't see the difference between discipline and abuse. Another said, the Bible says it is okay, so it's okay.

In light of the fact that the debate area is rarely used, if anyone opposes my view and wants to debate it, I would be happy to do so, unless someone better equipped would like to debate the side of no hitting.

[popeyespappy]

It does help to tenderize the meat before you cook them.

[Justtristo]

I support corporal punishment in parental, educational and judicial settings. Because I believe sometimes children (and adults) need to be literally smacked into reality. At least here in Australia we have overreacted to situation we had 60 years ago, when there were abuses to the system of corporal punishment in parental, educational and judicial settings.

[Shell B]

I don't believe in turning over that kind of power to teachers, administrators and whatnot that you hardly know. In fact, I don't believe in it at all, but I can't see how parents who support corporal punishment can feel comfortable allowing someone else to do it. Some of these assholes have no restraint. I was reading about a kid who had bruising so severe it needed medical attention, a kid who had an asthma attack and another who passed out because the beating was so bad and broke his jaw when he hit the floor. I don't care if these are the exceptions to the rule. If it happens to one kid, that is more than enough for me to say shut it down. We don't even hit criminals -- legally, anyway. I don't understand why we would treat our children worse than murderers.

[MilesTailsPrower]

Beating your child until he/she is unconscious or physical harm towards the health of the child that could cause physical, mental, and emotional harm is child abuse. Do children sometimes need to be spanked? Yes, if they are acting in a serious inappropriate way that causes provocation or just acting plain dumb once they have been told to stop, needs some attitude adjustment. I was spanked for doing stupid things when I was little, and I learned not to do those things again. When you stop caring about what your child is doing, they are going to start acting up in public and keeping up an inappropriate behavior because they haven't fully recognized the consequences, and they are probably going to keep doing it.

Child abuse, that's the most disgusting form of violence there is and there is no exception to that, no matter what you use to justify it (Bible?).

[Shell B]

I'm pretty sure these people hate me now. I had no freaking clue people were so attached to their legal right to hit their children. I'm not against spanking in situations where a child refuses to listen because no consequences have been enough, thusfar. I can't bring myself to spank children, but I understand why some people do. However, using an object or leaving a bruise is too much. It's a little ridiculous. I feel like I had atheist written on my forehead or something.

[Rev. Rye]

It probably goes without saying that goes above and beyond the line between discipline and child abuse. Especially these motherfuckers. And they live a few miles from me, disturbingly enough.

That said, I would consider anything more severe than spanking to be child abuse. It should also be noted that psychological methods of discipline can work, if done consistently.

[Epimethean]

Dunno, Shell. I am a first generation American from an old world Hungarian family, and I received a few beatings in my childhood at the hands of my father. Every time, I think it was the most logical consequence for what amounted to pretty egregious behavior. The implements ranged from an open hand, to a paddle, to a belt, to a switch. These things got me right back in line, and I don't bear my father any ill-will for handling me roughly when I was way out of line.

I was also paddled once in junior high, by the assistant principal. That was just weird.

[Shell B]

Dunno, Shell. I am a first generation American from an old world Hungarian family, and I received a few beatings in my childhood at the hands of my father. Every time, I think it was the most logical consequence for what amounted to pretty egregious behavior. The implements ranged from an open hand, to a paddle, to a belt, to a switch. These things got me right back in line, and I don't bear my father any ill-will for handling me roughly when I was way out of line.

I was also paddled once in junior high, by the assistant principal. That was just weird.

I got spankings and whoopings too. My experience was that it made me act out even more. I eventually became a pain in the ass teenager and left home when I was 16. My point is that the outcome for different children is different, but it really is possible to punish a kid without hitting them. You just have to know what your kids like most in the world and how to take it away for the right amount of time. My stepson hates being in his room for some reason. Social creature that he is, he will not spend time in his room. He will take his toys out of his room and go to wherever there are people. So, when he is bad, he stays in his room. He freaking hates it and always apologizes. He's not perfect, but I get roughly the same result a spanking would get, without the self-disgust I think I would feel.

I was never hit by a teacher. I think my parents would have lost it, despite their methods of punishment. I think I would have hit back too. I was an extremely headstrong child. I regret being such a dick, in fact. Regret or no, I am relatively positive I would have hit my teacher if he or she hit me.

[Erinome]

I don't allow people to hit my children. Where I am from you have to sign something that says you either do approve of the Principle paddling your child or you don't. I check the "don't" box every time. I don't have to spank my children. They're not perfect little angels, I just live by the old Chinese proverb, "He who strikes the first blow admits he's run out of ideas.". I often find creative ways to discipline my kids. My son forgot his folder the other day (for the 3rd time in 2 weeks), so he did write-off's:

"I will not forget my folder ever again." x100

I take away privileges, give extra chores, time out's, etc.. but most importantly, I reward good behavior and offer positive reinforcement. They are very well behaved, loving, compassionate, imaginative children. It can be done without physical violence, but you have to be willing to put effort into parenting.

'Parent' is not just a noun, it is also a verb. Corporal punishment is something done by people who want immediate improvement in behavior.. for that it works, but if you want long term results, it the fast-track to failure.