Beating Children

[fr0d0]

I've thought for a long time that physical punishment should be an option, and that mental abuse can be worse in some cases. Having said that I've never hit my kids and have no intention of doing so.

It sure does help disciplining them as early as possible.. patient correction saves what is an impossible task when the kids are older. I remember my wife patiently saiying "No" when my kids would look around at her before they put their hands on something they shouldn't. And if they pushed it they'd be picked up and moved away... rinse, wash, repeat. But they got the message. They are a joy to take out because they listen.

As a kid I was smacked by my dad once. I don't think it was effective because in my mind it was unjust, and still is.
At junior school I was caned twice on the hands. Completely innefective. I remember one rebellious Indian girl being spanked across the headmasters knee in a coridoor as we all filed past. She was still swearing at him. Admittedly at that time not many kids seemed to get into a lot of trouble, but the whole ethos back then was different.

In the rougher areas locally teachers have a hard job controlling the kids. Because they've learn't no discipline at home they're almost impossible to control. Only shouting works. Very different from China, where they can have massive classes because the discipline is near perfect.

[The Grand Nudger]

Meh, I have a short list of actions that require my doling out a quick slap on the ass. A longer list of things that fall in the physical restraint camp. Mostly I just tell them no, or express dissatisfaction. I don't exactly swing my fists (or they'd be dead). But hitting each other with heavy objects, trying to push each other down the stairs, sticking things in light sockets, playing with the stove...I'm going to attach pain to those memories. It works. The pain from a slap on the ass is something to remember, and better than being bludgeoned on the back of the head, falling down the stairs, being electrocuted, or burning the house to ash. It's a rare day that you'll win a mental stare down with a three year old (at least mine anyway). I suppose if I spent more time spanking them than putting them in time out or explaining why "daddy isn't very happy/proud" of this or that I'd worry. I grew up in a household where heavy labor and switching were the punishments for just about everything. There was more dangerous shit around the place I grew up, and so my parents had to be a little more stern than I have to be with my girls, who live a pretty cozy life comparatively. Even so, I was physically disciplined about 100x more often than my children, and I still don't feel that my parents crossed the line at any point. With some things, if you fuck around, you're dead. If you won't respect that, you will respect the switch.

[Jaysyn]

"I will not forget my folder ever again." x100

I take away privileges, give extra chores, time out's, etc.. but most importantly, I reward good behavior and offer positive reinforcement. They are very well behaved, loving, compassionate, imaginative children. It can be done without physical violence, but you have to be willing to put effort into parenting.

Yeah? I wonder what will you do when your child decides to stop complying with your punishments?

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You can't "get creative" nor reason with a two year old.

Sure you can. Shut off whatever telecrack they are obsessed with at the moment, leave them to bawl their eyes out in a playpen and come back when they have learned their lesson.

Lol, my younger brother destroyed his playpen when my mom did this to him. Literally ripped / chewed thru the side of it. At 2 1/2 - 3 years old.

[The Grand Nudger]

They're little animals, with just as well functioning a mind as our own (though obviously far less disciplined or developed), unencumbered by our own years of domestication. As far as compliance goes, that's a pain in the ass. When I reach that wall, and they aren't budging, I have to really pick the battle. How much is it worth to me at that point? Can't win em all, not even against a child. Give em a little credit you know, they have moments of sheer manipulative brilliance...lol.

[Cinjin]

I got spanked more than my brother and sister combined and my mom broke so many wooden spoons across my ass, she should've bought stock in the company that made them. Kinda funny right?

I use to think like you did Rhythm, "I might have to occasionally smack my kids". Until one day I decided to try to break one of those cheap wooden spoons on the padded armrest of my couch.

.....once I realized how hard I had to swing that spoon to actually break it - the gravity of that kind of punishment really overwhelmed me. I should not have received that kind of punishment as a child. My parents were wrong.

No, I'm not too terribly fucked up today, but that does not make me the poster child for the "success" of brutal punishment.

[The Grand Nudger]

Not invoking brutality. Spanking is an art form. Very difficult to get it right (daiper padding helps). Breaking spoons is much past the line, to me at least. Mileage may vary. It's an abrupt jolt, and the immediacy in my voice, that works for me. Makes them stop dead in their tracks. Fork two inches from the socket, club hovering over the other's head. I'v tried to leverage just the voice and they startle a little but keep swinging/moving forward anyway. Spanking is life or death to me. If it doesn't have the potential to kill them I don't interfere with spanking. I mentioned my grandparents disciplinary style as it was much more physically violent and yet still seemed to be within the lines. There are a couple dozen of us and we all have nothing but respect and love for the people who raised us. They were obviously not the types who broke spoons over us (or anything). Sorry that you went through something like that.

I have three kids to watch btw, babyproofing is bullshit when they have a "council of mischief" and the labor force to pull it off. Sometimes they slip one over on me and I catch them teetering at the precipice of destruction. Wife wants 1-3 more, I politely removed myself from consideration as a stay at home. Too many children, not enough eyes (or that wide field of vision mothers so lovingly remind us of). Gotta buy more land and turn a profit, get out of this business (child raising business, of course).

I think I'd worry if my children were nervous around me, they are not. I mean you always wonder if the punishment is too harsh yeah? Too much time in the corner? Obviously I can't spank their hands without wondering. In the end, for me at least, the spank to the wrist is less harmful than the light socket. It's a tough line to toe I guess. Might also be the case that the things I think of as "spanking" don't seem like spanking to others. Just saving their asses from harm.

[Autumnlicious]

As always, your mileage may vary.

Spanking is, like Rhythm said, an art form. What is not stated, however, is the obvious: context matters in every situation.

It is quite real there are kids for whom physical correction for egregious actions is required.

I, for one, see absolutely no issue with delivering a spanking or even a decent backhand to a child who has, for example, just tried to push their sibling down the staircase (which can kill, not that the child recognized that).

I do see an issue if physical punishment is being doled out in response to non-physical transgressions -- how is the child supposed to connect the dots between doing the "bad" non-physical action and the physical corrective measure? I can't come up with a viable model, and I'm a fully grown adult!

Punishment relies on context and being obvious in what it is punishing. Anything less is just abuse, because no one will learn, only hurt.

That is where we've crossed the line.

Unfortunately, people who've been abused will often eschew the possibility to spanking, even if it would be the most effective correction under certain circumstances. Which then either produces problem man-children (I know far too many of those spoiled man-brats) or good kids (in which spanking them probably never would've happened).

Limiting parent's options is the wrong solution. However, the correct solution involves education of temperance and pragmatism -- it teaches no one, for example, if you beat a child for mouthing off, except that no one should mouth off around you. Which could not be further from the mark, where the intent is to teach a child not to mouth off period. (Note, mouthing off is a term, from where I live at least, that would include constant smart-ass remarks intended for no other purpose than disruption).

However, haraunging said mouthy child does wonders for shutting them up, though the best measure is when the community itself expresses disapproval at churlish conduct (because suddenly it isn't "just mom and dad", but the whole world that is ignoring, shunning them for bad behavior).

Human beings are far more social creatures than we give credit for. It is of my opinion that a lot of physical correction on the part of a single person can be offloaded to the community in exchange for non-physical correction (e.g. the community expresses disapproval and distaste at the churl).

[The Grand Nudger]

It's definitely one way to curb destructive action before the child can completely understand the concept of "destructive actions". One of those "lies to children" moments.

Why can't I hit my sister in the head?
-because daddy will spank you-

or

-In reality the answer is too complicated for you to understand baby, but it has to do with what happens when something called trauma occurs to your head, which holds a very important feature of your anatomy. It is also an issue with a thing called "morality"-

I take the grenade drill instructor standpoint of appropriate actions. "If I think a punch to the gut will help me get you to the ground quicker in the event of a mishap, I'm going to do it. So expect it."

[BloodyHeretic]

I don't think there's any need to hit children, even if sometimes there's nothing you want to do more. Other forms of punishment work, physical violence needn't be employed. I was caned or smacked when I was younger, it didn't much help, it just made me angry. The natural instinct is to defend oneself from a violent attack, and to have to stand there and accept it is pure humiliation, or was for me. Anyway, I got too old for that and other forms of punishment were employed, and worked a whole lot better. I can never ever imagine consenting to let somebody else hit my own children, if I ever have any.

[Autumnlicious]

Bullshit.

Flight or fight is the instinct you're referring to, which is quite different from 'defend oneself'. And neither have a tendency of happening, even in full grown adults (bystander effect, shock, et al).

Furthermore, I see little to explain why 'physical punishments don't work'. What I have seen has pointed out that physical punishments only work in specific circumstances, which removes the legs from 'physical punishment needn't be employed'.

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Now, on the topic of outsourcing your disciplinary measures to someone else (not a parent) -- fuck that shit. Your broodlings, your job to discipline them.