'Seeking' God

[The Grand Nudger]

I have a similar stance on the subject Agenda. If we were created, this was all created, blah blah blah, then the things we can observe and make predictions based off of were how it was done. If your theology disagrees your theology is suffering from a simple error about the nature of god. Gods existence shouldn't rest upon some giant deception.

[Doubting Thomas]

I think it's just another dishonest tactic to try to bring more members into the fold. "Start coming to church with us and pretend to be religious for a while, and soon you'll realize that you are religious!" Yeah sure. Only works on people who are actually looking for some kind of spiritual "something," and when they get surrounded by friendly faces telling them how great God is, of course they'll start believing that God is the something they've been looking for.

Otherwise, it's kind of saying, "just start believing in God, and then you'll believe in God." If God's existence were so obvious, then there wouldn't be any need to "believe in" him.

[ElDinero]

Yep. As my first post said anyway, I can't force myself to believe in something. If free will existed, I'd be able to. But it doesn't, so I can't.

[salty]

Ahh, so you brought me here because you need some action. Ok. I'll answer the questions.

You'll notice Hebrews 11:6 is the verse featured under my banner...

[LastPoet]

And you find it good to live under that verse? Don't you find it a little too convenient?

[salty]

I saw this in another thread and thought it warranted it's own:

God has said that He will only reveal Himself to those who dilligently seek Him. So I can only point to Him:

Hebrews 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So it to you to verify this claim, and I have told you a simple way you can do that. It is surely worth your time. You say you're "pretty sure" but in actuality you don't know.

This statement is nothing more than an excuse. Anyone who hasn't 'found God' can simply be told they didn't seek him earnestly enough.

Now, since I don't see any evidence for God's existence, why would I spend time seeking it in that way? No, it isn't worth my time, because my life continues just fine without it, as does everything else, as far as I can tell. Also I would contend that it is far from 'simple'. And here's why.

I don't take things on 'faith', and I cannot control my beliefs. It states that I need to believe in him to find him, but this would require serious doublethink on my part, of which I am incapable. A few questions, then, for any theist who believes that bollocks.

1. How can I believe in something that I don't believe in, just in order to find it? And if I already believe in it, what is the point of the search in the first place?
2. How should I search for God?
3. How long will it take?
4. How will I know when I have found him?

Over to you.

Many people struggle with these questions. I'll see what I can do to provide some answers from an entirely Christian perspective. In these answers, I am defending that Jesus is God.

1. That's quite a situation, to force yourself to believe in something you don't believe in, in order to find out if it's true.

There seems to be a three part process to belief: part 1, a person is presented with an idea. part 2, a person accepts or rejects the idea based on their judgment. part 3, when a person is challenged they will defend their opinion.

From my experience people do not believe in things without the intention to defend an idea. For example: some people believe that polygamy is acceptable, should they be confronted with the issue of polygamy being wrong they will defend the idea based on their judgment.

Using this example belief seems to come with the weight of a response in the end, displaying your deepest feelings toward an idea. So, if you have been presented with information about God, you have rejected it, and you are unwilling to defend him it is pointless for you to seek God, because your mind has already decided that God is not present and not worth your time. On the other hand, if you have been presented information about God, you have accepted it and are willing to defend him there is still a reason for you to seek him because your defense will be weak if you know nothing about him, therefore, just to build a stronger case for your belief and your defense you should seek him.

2. If you find that you want to seek God you must first change the third part of your response to an idea, you must be willing to defend God. In order to defend God you will need to do the research, exegetical and so on, it doesn't mean that you have accepted any of the information as true, but upon your research and your expereince you will defend God should you find any bit of truth, according to your judgment, to the matter.

3. I don't know how long it will take, it depends on your dedication. Every search is different, but without the intention to respond, the search may come up void, in the case of Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel it turned them into Christians, who knows what it will do for you.

4. You will know if you've found him. There are only two responses to God, that of the unbeliever, unwilling to defend the idea of Jesus: "The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God." Romans 8:7-8 NIV.

And that of the believer: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, up-right and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." Titus 2:11-13 NIV.

You've found him when you believe in statements like this. You will delight in the word, you will delight in anything that praises and seeks God's coming, that is how you will know that you have found him.

I wanted to mention that you (El Dinero) already believe strongly that homosexuality is an acceptable act, which you defended intensely in another thread, therefore you have demonstrated that you can control your beliefs, merely by your response. Seek God, with the intention to follow and you will find him.

---

And you find it good to live under that verse? Don't you find it a little too convenient?

What do you mean? I'm afraid I can pull a lot of thoughts from this kind of response, could you make it a little clearer for me.

I guess what I can say, right now is this: I want to please God. I have to first have faith that there is a God to please in order to seek how to please him.

[KichigaiNeko]

Wow salty...any wonder you sound all fucked up!!

Don't have any of these issues.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm surprised that I have to mention this to you Salty. If a person goes looking for something, specifically, there's a massive chance that they'll find it whether it actually exists or not.

Muslims seek allah, and they find him

Asatruar seek Odin, and they find him.

Christians seek christ, surprise surprise, they find him.

If this statement works for christ, it works for all the rest. The only way it works for christ and not the rest, is if you can demonstrate that christ exists in the first place, and that the others do not.

[Cinjin]

You will not find God. It does not matter how much you search. What you will find is your own feelings. Christian preachers, who have been preachers for DECADES are finding out what I did. The "spirit" that you think you feel is not real and christianity is utter fraud.

The Clergy Project

One former fundamentalist Baptist preacher is quoted: "I had members of my congregation walking up to me and saying that they could feel the spirit of the lord moving through me, and I knew that wasn't possible, as I was already an atheist."

When you go seeking a "feeling" that "God" is in your life ... it's rather easy to find. Did you meet god? No. Did you see god? No. Did god even speak to you in an audible voice? No. Did god heal you or give you ANY kind of a miracle? No. You have found NOTHING more than your own need to feel a warm fuzzy feeling to help you through your day.

Listen for yourself

[ElDinero]

So, if you have been presented with information about God, you have rejected it, and you are unwilling to defend him it is pointless for you to seek God, because your mind has already decided that God is not present and not worth your time.

With this being the case, why do Christians tell us that we will find God if we seek him? Why, indeed, do you say the same thing below? Why is it in your signature? You plainly know that we have been presented with this 'evidence' (such as it is), and not found it convincing. If you acknowledge that seeking him is pointless, why do atheists continually get told to seek him, and believe he exists first? It is something that cannot be done.

3. I don't know how long it will take, it depends on your dedication. Every search is different, but without the intention to respond, the search may come up void, in the case of Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel it turned them into Christians, who knows what it will do for you.

I knew this would be the response. This proves my first point completely, by making it an unfalsifiable proposition. 'Go and seek God' you say. 'I tried' I say. 'Obviously not hard enough' you say. It creates this situation where you get to count all the hits, point to them and say 'Look, see! God's grace shines upon another!', but simultaneously allows you to ignore every single miss, by telling the poor seeker that they haven't searched earnestly enough. One of Christianity's greatest ever tricks. Gullible people who already wanted to find something comprise 100% of the hits.

I wanted to mention that you (El Dinero) already believe strongly that homosexuality is an acceptable act, which you defended intensely in another thread, therefore you have demonstrated that you can control your beliefs, merely by your response. Seek God, with the intention to follow and you will find him.

Could you clarify what you mean here? I'm not sure I follow you. But with regards your final sentence, I will say that I have no intention of seeking or following God, for moral reasons as well as the lack of any evidence. It is simply impossible for me to doublethink in this way. Can you explain how it is possible?