the late Jade Goody

[bozo]

To answer my own question, I think Parky goes too far by saying JG represents " all " that is wretched in the country. The list of things wretched goes beyond bonehead reality tv shows. However, I think the thrust of his comment is justified.
This was a woman of no talent, little intelligence, not blessed with great beauty and yet became a role model for presumably similar types of people plus the trendies. Personally, I found nothing likeable about her or perhaps more pertinent, I despair at the state of the country with its fascination for " celebrities ".
However, to be fair to her,she seized the moment and milked the system for every penny she could get, including living her dying days in the celebrity spotlights. In that sense, the girl done well!
I can't comment on her racist outburst because I didn't witness it.

[fr0d0]

Goody didn't say 'nigger', that was another contestant on another Big Brother. The worst thing Goody told Shetty was that she needed to "spend a day in the slums".

[Tiberius]

Fundamentalist Muslims can voice their ill founded objections to the armed forces but a woman cant call another woman a name in jest which would be acceptable if from another person with a similar skin pigmentation? This just seems wrong to me.

Nice misrepresentation of my point there. I never stated fundamentalist muslims could voice their ill founded objections to the armed forces (and I have no idea why you would even bring that up). No hate speech should be tolerated.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

The blame, IMO, lies fairly and squarely with the media agencies that promoted her and such promotion is typical in the tabloid media of today.

Don't forget the ones REALLY to blame:The poor stupid cow's sadistic peers who watch that shit.


In her position that's exactly what I'd have done. She needed no one's permission or approval. She exploited a callous industry and an equally callous and moronic public, both of whom exploited her. I'm sure she's deeply concerned by the self righteous disapproval of the bourgeois twats getting their panties in a bunch,what with being dead and all..Making the most of the situation is probably the smartest thing she ever did. I begrudge her and her children not a penny.Nor do I begrudge the poor cow her 15 minutes of fame.

----and Michael Parkinson is a small minded cunt..

PS I don't watch any kind of reality TV, including sports. I had never heard of her until I saw something on the news about her death. Myoverllatiduetoherandherleifsioenof

[Kyuuketsuki]

The blame, IMO, lies fairly and squarely with the media agencies that promoted her and such promotion is typical in the tabloid media of today.

Don't forget the ones REALLY to blame:The poor stupid cow's sadistic peers who watch that shit.

Well yeessss ... with reservations I'd agree, I still think it's the media that have gorged this idea that we ARE going to like that kind of shit.

In her position that's exactly what I'd have done. She needed no one's permission or approval. She exploited a callous industry and an equally callous and moronic public, both of whom exploited her. I'm sure she's deeply concerned by the self righteous disapproval of the bourgeois twats getting their panties in a bunch,what with being dead and all..Making the most of the situation is probably the smartest thing she ever did. I begrudge her and her children not a penny.Nor do I begrudge the poor cow her 15 minutes of fame.

Again I agree with reservations ... being, broadly speaking, socialist I resent her kids getting specialist treatment and can't differentiate between her and thousands of other women dying from the same kind of cancer.

----and Michael Parkinson is a small minded XXXX..

I think he had a point but only from a general perspective.

PS I don't watch any kind of reality TV, including sports. I had never heard of her until I saw something on the news about her death.

I admit I had heard of her, I despised her and everything about her but nevertheless I can't fault her for what she has done ... my irritation is at the media for constantly putting this cheap-arsed shit on TV and in magazines, for playing down to our most base characteristics and not even trying to show that we are capable of so much more. And for those who somehow manage to except it ... "The Apprentice" is just reality TV for fucking snobs!

Myoverllatiduetoherandherleifsioenof

Er ... OK.

Kyu

[Rob]

Fundamentalist Muslims can voice their ill founded objections to the armed forces but a woman cant call another woman a name in jest which would be acceptable if from another person with a similar skin pigmentation? This just seems wrong to me.

Nice misrepresentation of my point there. I never stated fundamentalist muslims could voice their ill founded objections to the armed forces (and I have no idea why you would even bring that up). No hate speech should be tolerated.

Well I wasn't actually talking about you in that quote but the authorities who stood and did nothing to stop the protest. You can't really label all hate speech as wrong as you did there since hate speech is such a subjective form of speech. If you say something (anything) in a public place large enough someone is bound to be offended. Should such occurrences be labelled as hate speech because one person in a million takes offence? and if not, how many people need to take offence? Now what if its theists and atheists instead. I've offended a few people by pointing out fallacies in their logic. I wasn't trying to cause offence but offence was caused. Was that hate speech? The same people would often reply to me calling me all sorts of offensive names, I did not take offence. Was this hate speech? If it wasn't, would it have been hate speech if I had been offended?

Jade's hate speech was apparently the type uttered innocently and taken with no offence. (at least by those involved)
The muslims hate speech was uttered hatefully and was rightly taken as offensive.

Why is it that Jade's should demand an apology and the muslims should not?
I'm just trying to point out that we have a mixed standard when it comes to things like freedom of speech in England.

---

I admit I had heard of her, I despised her and everything about her but nevertheless I can't fault her for what she has done ... my irritation is at the media for constantly putting this cheap-arsed shit on TV and in magazines, for playing down to our most base characteristics and not even trying to show that we are capable of so much more. And for those who somehow manage to except it ... "The Apprentice" is just reality TV for fucking snobs!

True as that is, since good scripted television shows are more expensive to produce I doubt we'll see much improvement whilst in the recession.

[Tiberius]

You can't really label all hate speech as wrong as you did there since hate speech is such a subjective form of speech. If you say something (anything) in a public place large enough someone is bound to be offended. Should such occurrences be labelled as hate speech because one person in a million takes offence? and if not, how many people need to take offence?

Any speech that expresses hatred towards an unchangeable attribute of a group is hate speech. This covers gender (unchangeable at least in a non-scientific sense), sexual orientation, race, etc. Beliefs are free to be criticized because they are an active choice (i.e. you choose who you vote for, you choose to follow certain religious doctrines).

Why is it that Jade's should demand an apology and the muslims should not?

Both should have, but the UK is afraid of Islam. Just look at what they are forcing through the UN! A resolution that makes it a crime to insult religion! The UK needs to wake up and realize that you cannot possibly protect citizens from hate speech as well as condemn people for attacking religion. Religions are all forms of hate speech in some way or another, and Islam is one of the worst.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Myoverllatiduetoherandherleifsioenof


oops

Typo.

[Rob]

You can't really label all hate speech as wrong as you did there since hate speech is such a subjective form of speech. If you say something (anything) in a public place large enough someone is bound to be offended. Should such occurrences be labelled as hate speech because one person in a million takes offence? and if not, how many people need to take offence?

Any speech that expresses hatred towards an unchangeable attribute of a group is hate speech. This covers gender (unchangeable at least in a non-scientific sense), sexual orientation, race, etc. Beliefs are free to be criticized because they are an active choice (i.e. you choose who you vote for, you choose to follow certain religious doctrines).

Intriguing definition. The only definitions I was able to find earlier today were were substantially more general. Thank you for clearing that up.

Why is it that Jade's should demand an apology and the muslims should not?

Both should have, but the UK is afraid of Islam. Just look at what they are forcing through the UN! A resolution that makes it a crime to insult religion! The UK needs to wake up and realize that you cannot possibly protect citizens from hate speech as well as condemn people for attacking religion. Religions are all forms of hate speech in some way or another, and Islam is one of the worst.

With the exception of the first three words I agree with all of the above paragraph. What the UN is doing flies in the face of all the progress and benefits we should be experiencing as we step towards a world government.
I disagree with the first three words since in Jade's case I do not see how the incident would classify as hate speech under the aforementioned definition. Now correct me if I'm wrong and I quite probably am on account of having a colander for a brain and not seeing the footage for years, but as far as I remember she did not make a hateful comment. The comment could not have been hate speech unless of course we extend the definition to cover people not present nor referenced in the speech. However, then once again we again have a problem over a definition too general to be useful.

[Tiberius]

I disagree with the first three words since in Jade's case I do not see how the incident would classify as hate speech under the aforementioned definition. Now correct me if I'm wrong and I quite probably am on account of having a colander for a brain and not seeing the footage for years, but as far as I remember she did not make a hateful comment. The comment could not have been hate speech unless of course we extend the definition to cover people not present nor referenced in the speech. However, then once again we again have a problem over a definition too general to be useful.

If a person says something like "Black people should go back to Africa" and they are among friends or like-minded people, and nobody present gets offended, then I don't class it as some kind of breach on free speech. I would thus further define "hate speech" as any public display of speech that espouses hate. Perhaps I should have been more clear about that, as it is important. For instance, me and my friends (some even black) have a good laugh at racist jokes because we're all friends and we simply find them amusing.

For someone to make a public statement (as Jade did on national TV) that causes offense to people (and it did, as some protests in India showed if I recall correctly), then it is hate speech. It may have been a stupid remark, she may have not meant it, but at the time it was hate speech and needs to be apologized for. I'm not saying it's all her fault. This would never have happened if Channel 4 hadn't broadcast it.