Did Jesus Even Really Exist?

[Minimalist]

Jesus along with the Christians are mentioned in sources from Roman academics written around 100CE,

Pliny, writing c 112 AD mentions xtians. He knows nothing about any "Jesus."

[Happy UnBeliever]

I personally think Jesus did exist, but most of what is written about is simple exaggeration and fiction.

Jesus along with the Christians are mentioned in sources from Roman academics written around 100CE, and he is referred to as someone who did definitely exist in sources which are critical of Christians from the time.

Where? Name a 1st Century historian or otherwise that even mentions him or sees him. The forged TF did not appear till the 4th Century and not even the church knew about it. Church father Euseibus was the forger behind that. It should appear to people that believe in this that if i.e. the passage in Josephus had existed Origen, Tertullian and others would have thrown at their Jewsih counter parts. Fact is that everything wrote about him appears until 100 to 300 years after the fact.

Jim Walker writes:

All claims of Jesus derive from hearsay accounts

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people.

http://www.skeptically.org/newtestament/id28.html

Dan Barker writes:

All scholars agree that Josephus, a Jew who never converted to Christianity, would not have called Jesus "the Christ" or "the truth," so the passage must have been doctored by a later Christian--evidence, by the way, that some early believers were in the habit of altering texts to the advantage of their theological agenda. The phrase "to this day" reveals it was written at a later time. Everyone agrees there was no "tribe of Christians" during the time of Josephus--Christianity did not get off the ground until the second century

http://www.exminister.org/Barker-debunki...Jesus.html

[Godscreated]

I've found that all debates with Christians about the "historical Jesus" usually wind up with the Christian improvising a never ending stream of ad hoc hypotheses until you wind up having to prove a negative.

Seriously? And all the various unnamed rich people don't count? How about Joseph of Arimathea? He was a man apparently so rich and powerful as to get a crucified criminal a proper burial. None of them count?

What would satisfy you? The emperor along with the entire Roman senate coming to Judea to speak with Jesus?

No I do not need the Emperor or any one else high ranking, show me where Joseph of Arimathea is mentioned in history, what unnamed rich people, if they had been historically significant we would know their names at the very least. Jesus popularity did not go beyond that small area. Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew. The people written about in history were associated with other historical figures or were in prominent positions to be written about, like governors and ect.

***DEIST PALADIN EDITED TO FIX QUOTE BOXES***

[The Grand Nudger]

"Since the 2nd century, a mass of legendary detail has accumulated around the figure of Joseph of Arimathea in addition to the New Testament references. Joseph is referenced in apocryphal and non-canonical accounts such as the Acts of Pilate,[4] a text often appended to the medieval Gospel of Nicodemus and The Narrative of Joseph, and mentioned in the works of early church historians such as Irenaeus (125 – 189), Hippolytus (170 – 236), Tertullian (155 – 222) and Eusebius (260 – 340), who added details not found in the canonical accounts. Hilary of Poitiers (300 – 367) enriched the legend, and Saint John Chrysostom (347 – 407), the Patriarch of Constantinople, was the first to write[5] that Joseph was one of the Seventy Apostles appointed in Luke 10.
During the late 12th century, Joseph became connected with the Arthurian cycle, appearing in them as the first keeper of the Holy Grail. This idea first appears in Robert de Boron's Joseph d'Arimathie, in which Joseph receives the Grail from an apparition of Jesus and sends it with his followers to Britain. This theme is elaborated upon in Boron's sequels and in subsequent Arthurian works penned by others. Later retellings of the story contend that Joseph of Arimathea himself travelled to Britain and became the first Christian bishop in the Isles.[6]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_of_Arimathea

Oh, you mean this legendary character? More fairy tales.

[Happy UnBeliever]

I've found that all debates with Christians about the "historical Jesus" usually wind up with the Christian improvising a never ending stream of ad hoc hypotheses until you wind up having to prove a negative.

Seriously? And all the various unnamed rich people don't count? How about Joseph of Arimathea? He was a man apparently so rich and powerful as to get a crucified criminal a proper burial. None of them count?

What would satisfy you? The emperor along with the entire Roman senate coming to Judea to speak with Jesus?

No I do not need the Emperor or any one else high ranking, show me where Joseph of Arimathea is mentioned in history, what unnamed rich people, if they had been historically significant we would know their names at the very least. Jesus popularity did not go beyond that small area. Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew. The people written about in history were associated with other historical figures or were in prominent positions to be written about, like governors and ect.

Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew.

No one....

[Minimalist]

Joseph of "Arimathea" ( no such place is known to ancient writers and even modern apologists cannot seem to find a place which matches it ) is a fictional character from a fictional place designed as a plot device to get your fucking godboy off his fictional cross and into his fictional tomb.

[Epimethean]

And the undialogue continues ...

[DeistPaladin]

Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew. The people written about in history were associated with other historical figures or were in prominent positions to be written about, like governors and ect.

Pilate.
Herod Antipas.

[Anomalocaris]

Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew. The people written about in history were associated with other historical figures or were in prominent positions to be written about, like governors and ect.

Pilate.
Herod Antipas.

Hardly would Pilatus be known at all but for the eponymous character in the low brow fiction "holy bible", and the usefulness of that character as tools for insinuating the xtian sect into gentile good graces and rallying feeble minded sentiments against the sectarian rival to christians - the jews.

[Godscreated]

I've found that all debates with Christians about the "historical Jesus" usually wind up with the Christian improvising a never ending stream of ad hoc hypotheses until you wind up having to prove a negative.

Seriously? And all the various unnamed rich people don't count? How about Joseph of Arimathea? He was a man apparently so rich and powerful as to get a crucified criminal a proper burial. None of them count?

What would satisfy you? The emperor along with the entire Roman senate coming to Judea to speak with Jesus?

No I do not need the Emperor or any one else high ranking, show me where Joseph of Arimathea is mentioned in history, what unnamed rich people, if they had been historically significant we would know their names at the very least. Jesus popularity did not go beyond that small area. Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew. The people written about in history were associated with other historical figures or were in prominent positions to be written about, like governors and ect.

Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew.

No one....

My point exactly. Thank you.

---

Please show me the famous people of history that Jesus knew. The people written about in history were associated with other historical figures or were in prominent positions to be written about, like governors and ect.

Pilate.
Herod Antipas.

Hardly would Pilatus be known at all but for the eponymous character in the low brow fiction "holy bible", and the usefulness of that character as tools for insinuating the xtian sect into gentile good graces and rallying feeble minded sentiments against the sectarian rival to christians - the jews.

Now we are getting to the big ones. Both were associated with Him for what, two hours.