Did Jesus Even Really Exist?

[The Grand Nudger]

As if the engineers of the world are immune to superstition and ignorance. Jesus popularity was somehow derived from feeding the multitudes? Not even in the least, he never fed anyone with magic food because magic food doesn't exist. Trying to leverage absurdity in support of absurdity is pointless. No jesus, no magic, no nothing. Unless you have some evidence....

[Minimalist]

Nope, no evidence. Just silly belief.

[Happy UnBeliever]

I'm not sure why you mentioned Herod, if it was one who knew Jesus I believe I said higher ranking people.

How high a rank do you want? Local ruler isn't enough? What do you want? Emperor Tiberius?

The point I've been trying to make is this, Jesus was not know by those who are written about in history except for Herod. So there's no real reason for Him to be written about in history.

Syria, now that's along way off, get real please.

For the time, yes. It doesn't fit your narrative that Jesus was just a local yocal that nobody outside a small group of peasants paid any attention to.

Go back and read what I said, I stated that Jesus was very popular with the lesser people of His day. With Jesus feeding thousands that had gathered to see Him, one can not deny His popularity nor would I want to. He said he came for the poor, the sick, the hurting, the down trodden and ect. so yes He was popular with those He came to help. Yes it was a small area He was known in, but His popularity was great to those who needed or wanted what He had. Just like today the elite did not think they needed someone like Jesus, they believed they had it, so they were not looking for anything from Jesus.

You have completely avoided the question, why? I've asked an honest question, can't you reply likewise? I believe "any" covers everyone.

OK, John the Baptist is an analogous example of one less famous who has more of a footprint in recorded history. Josephus mentioned him in a passage that wasn't a glaring forgery.

Jesus was also mentioned by Josephus, yes part of what was said was added but not all of it. Both are just mentioned you really could not call this a written history. Josephus was a puppet of Rome, He dare not write a history of Jesus like is recorded in scriptures, he would have hung on a cross as well for upstaging Caesar. Jesus was killed for upstaging the religious leaders of the day.

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Thanks Rayaan I could not get all the comments to hide.
Godschild

Jesus was also mentioned by Josephus, yes part of what was said was added but not all of it. Both are just mentioned you really could not call this a written history. Josephus was a puppet of Rome, He dare not write a history of Jesus like is recorded in scriptures, he would have hung on a cross as well for upstaging Caesar. Jesus was killed for upstaging the religious leaders of the day.

I expected the Ant 18 passage that has already been proven a forgery. Josephus was not born until 4 years after this jesus was strung up on that stick so there is no way he is even remotely a contemporary source for this mythical character.

http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/article_008.htm

He dare not write a history of Jesus like is recorded in scriptures

Are you for real? You call the scripture a HISTORY! The reported so call life of this jesus as recorded by the GOSPELS is a JOKE! They knew nothing of the very man they supposedly followed. Bible is not history its an anthology written by men of questionable origin and authorship.

Jesus was killed for upstaging the religious leaders of the day.

Shows what you know as well of your mythical character. jesus was strung up because of blasphemy not because he had committed any crime! Blasphemy was not a crime punishable by DEATH under Roman law! The Jews had him strung up! Pilate did not want to execute him. Pilate was more concerned with abolishing Jewish law at the time.

Pilate brought in the ARMY in order to abolish Jewish law. Josephus wrote in Antiquities 18 below:

ANTIQUITIES 18.3.1
1. BUT now Pilate, the procurator of Judea, removed the army from Cesarea to Jerusalem, to take their winter quarters there, in order to abolish the Jewish laws.

So he introduced Caesar's effigies, which were upon the ensigns, and brought them into the city; whereas our law forbids us the very making of images; on which account the former procurators were wont to make their entry into the city with such ensigns as had not those ornaments.

[Azazylix]

I'd say that Jesus as a person did exist (hear me out!), BUT, in my opinion, only as an extremely charismatic and rather resourceful human, surrounded by followers who.. well, to say the least, exaggerate his feats. Mighty crafty of him too, to credit his abilities to a divine being and hence secure his own worship for centuries and MILLENNIA to come!

Who knows, he might even be a time traveller from the distant future who engineered and crafted up the entire story, making use of awesome technology to create "miracles"! ("Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" -A.C. Clarke) I'd probably do that if I had that kind of technology. For shits and giggles. :p

Or MAYBE, he's actually a member of an ALIEN RACE who descended upon this Earth to create a following! TONS of theories linking tons MORE things to an alien origin, mind you!

Hmm. Better stay "agnostic" on this one.

[Epimethean]

"It would help you to read what others post before you comment, why are you so mad at God?"


No atheist is mad at your made-up skywizard: We are angry that nitwits who believe in such a fabrication continue to fuck off and try to make more loonies to follow their stupid fairytale when the world needs more sane, rational, scientific thinkers. Fuck superstitious mumbo-jumbo back into the darkness of ignorance whence it came.

Just because I'm not one of the smartest cookies in the jar does not mean all christians are the same. One of my former youth is know a nuclear engineer and the company he works for sends him across the country and outside the country to help others in his field. This young man is a stronger christian than I am and he believes the Bible to be the Word of God.

All xtians are the same in the way they cling to a fantasy in place of dealing with reality. The fact that some of them manage to get educated does not mean that they receive a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to the sources of their beliefs, and suggesting such is just another attempt to grasp after straws, which is what xtians do best when asked to show evidence of anything supernatural in origin or in the behavior of man. It is in fact this very sidestepping that angers me-not the fact that someone wrote up a good storybook to frighten the children and simpletons into religious line.

[Faith No More]

...why are you so mad at God?

No one is mad at god as he doesn't exist. Were mad at the people that claim to speak for him.

[DeistPaladin]

I've found that all debates with Christians about the "historical Jesus" usually wind up with the Christian improvising a never ending stream of ad hoc hypotheses until you wind up having to prove a negative.

The point I've been trying to make is this, Jesus was not know by those who are written about in history except for Herod. So there's no real reason for Him to be written about in history.

Translation: "Except for the guy in charge of the province, whatayagot?"

Seriously? And all the various unnamed rich people don't count? How about Joseph of Arimathea? He was a man apparently so rich and powerful as to get a crucified criminal a proper burial. None of them count?

What would satisfy you? The emperor along with the entire Roman senate coming to Judea to speak with Jesus?

Jesus was also mentioned by Josephus, yes part of what was said was added but not all of it.

Prove it.

The apologists have admitted the passage was tampered with. The assertion that the passage is "partially authentic" has so far not been backed up with anything aside from "it uses words Josephus would have used and stuff."

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Thanks Rayaan I could not get all the comments to hide.
Godschild

Try doing like I do. Only quote the passages you are replying to. It makes for a more readable reply.

[Minimalist]

Jesus was also mentioned by Josephus, yes part of what was said was added but not all of it.

The watered-down TF makes no sense at all.

No one, especially Origen writing 75 years before Eusebius miraculously "produced" ( i.e. forged ) the TF made the slightest reference to it. Origen in Contra Celsus makes specific reference to Book XVIII of Antiquities of the Jews yet makes no reference to it.

The watered down TF is a modern construct designed by xtian "scholars" to salvage something of their godboy from antiquity. It is a forgery. In toto.

[Anomalocaris]

Just because I'm not one of the smartest cookies in the jar....

Granted

......does not mean all christians are the same.

That you are dumb does not per se mean all christians are dumb. But that they are christians in the modern world does indeed mean that they are all dumb in at least a few very damning ways.

One of my former youth is know a nuclear engineer and the company he works for sends him across the country and outside the country to help others in his field. This young man is a stronger christian than I am and he believes the Bible to be the Word of God.

Just because he is smarter than you doesn't make him smart.

[Xavier]

I personally think Jesus did exist, but most of what is written about is simple exaggeration and fiction.

Jesus along with the Christians are mentioned in sources from Roman academics written around 100CE, and he is referred to as someone who did definitely exist in sources which are critical of Christians from the time.