Prayer

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

'Pray (v): to ask that The laws of the universe being annulled in behalf of a single petitioner, confessedly unworthy.' - Ambrose Bierce.

Kind of says it all, really.

Boru

[GUBU]

I don't think you understand how our beliefs work.

We don't believe in a God who is a wizard with a magic wand and who will make food appear out of thin air for the poor people we pray for. That's not really how it works. When we "pray for the poor," our hope is not for something supernatural, but for them to be granted some emotional strength to get through tough times... or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them. For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through.

...things like that.

---

I have asked for people to pray for me before, because I'm a Christian and it brings me comfort to know that ppl are praying for me. Likewise, I let ppl know when I pray for them bc I want to give them the same comfort I get when others pray for me. No selfishness.

You obviously do not speak for all Christians. The pentecostals who comprise my nuclear family certainly do believe in magical responses from god. Food appearing, money, jobs, cancer "you foul demon begone".

So does the roman catholic church, by the way. It's just that most catholics are embarrased by that nonsense.

Edit: thinking about it more many catholics I know who squirm mightily if reminded of that type of prayer still regularly go into church pay €0.20 to light tea candles and pray for wealth, jobs, surgeries to go right etc. So for a lot of people the embarrasment is in having to qcknowledge they believe nonsense.

[robvalue]

@Rob..thanks for your input..I follow you..and appreciate your point of view...
still..I wanna say this..harm,you say...O.K then..why discuss harm if it creates more harm?

I don't see how discussing harm makes more harm. I'm trying to highlight the harm and speak out against it, to try and do my little bit to move attitudes in the right direction.

talking about religion is a dead end street..would it not be a better idea to discuss life values==
like inner peace,seeking of personal freedom,understanding,harmony,trust,life values,love..

I don't agree. I've had many valuable discussions, and we know that something like 95% of our readers are lurkers (passers by who don't register). I hope to make them think a bit.

We can and do discuss any subject. It's not a one or the other situation.

prayer?do atheists pray if they do not believe in anything?

Generally they don't, but they can if they want. They might believe in any other woo, just not Gods. They might think they can pray to ghosts or whatever. Up to them.

I don't know what "believe in anything" means. Atheists have beliefs, yes. There is no doctrine, we all believe whatever appears sensible to us about any given topic.

and how about a true believer of any religion..can he/she take the piss out of atheism and what it represents?

Sure they can. They generally misrepresent it when they try to do this, as there's really nothing to mock. But whatever makes them happy.

i believe the Baka pygmees in the Cameroun forest are happier then all of us here on this forum..
discussing things which will never get solved..in my eyes it's just an endless discussion..
sorry for my rant,mate..but it's my 2 cents here..

They may well be.

Just because things will never get fully resolved, that's no reason to not try and do the best we can. Any progress is good. If nothing else, people often simply enjoy these discussions.

[tigerlove]

O.K..Rob....one example==how about the terrorism issues?there were lots of discussions here about harm which islam terrorism caused..what happened..it created more harm...
so where do discussions end up?Belgium's airport got attacked and a lot of innocent people got killed..they started discussions openly on television,forums blablabla..
did it help for the better??no..it worsened the whole situation here..our streets and airports are full of military armed from foot to teeth...
sorry towards the OP here..because the topic was prayer...I will keep my gob shut..

[Drich]

It's when he talks back you need to worry.

Content and Context as with anything else.

If what He says bears out to be true, then why would one need fear truth?

---

Never known anyone else to be so insecure about their own existence that they need round the clock  acknowledgement simply for being a thing.

example?

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It's when he talks back you need to worry.

Because as it has been pointed out by one of you already, there is a narrowly defined path from which we have been given the opportunity to 'speak to God.' Hair dryers are not apart of that path.

It would be as unlikely for the hair dryer to yield a result as your own personal efforts did. Once you see God move a great obstacle in your life or one you hear and take direction from God, then one begins to understand things must be on His terms and not our own.

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I can understand being irritated at people for praying *in place of* actively helping if they can. Everyone should be irritated by that - Christians and non Christians alike.

But it seemed like the OP and several posts after that, didnt the make that specification.

Speaking to those in whom CL was speaking to:

James 2 James spoke harshly against those who 'well wish' and do nothing to fill a need.
14 My brothers and sisters, if a person claims to have faith but does nothing, that faith is worth nothing. Faith like that cannot save anyone. 15 Suppose a brother or sister in Christ comes to you in need of clothes or something to eat. 16 And you say to them, “God be with you! I hope you stay warm and get plenty to eat,” but you don’t give them the things they need. If you don’t help them, your words are worthless. 17 It is the same with faith. If it is just faith and nothing more—if it doesn’t do anything—it is dead.
18 But someone might argue, “Some people have faith, and others have good works.” My answer would be that you can’t show me your faith if you don’t do anything. But I will show you my faith by the good I do. 19 You believe there is one God. That’s good, but even the demons believe that! And they shake with fear.
20 You fool! Faith that does nothing is worth nothing. Do you want me to prove this to you?

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I don't think you understand how our beliefs work.

We don't believe in a God who is a wizard with a magic wand and who will make food appear out of thin air for the poor people we pray for. That's not really how it works. When we "pray for the poor," our hope is not for something supernatural, but for them to be granted some emotional strength to get through tough times... or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them. For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through.

...things like that.

---

I have asked for people to pray for me before, because I'm a Christian and it brings me comfort to know that ppl are praying for me. Likewise, I let ppl know when I pray for them bc I want to give them the same comfort I get when others pray for me. No selfishness.

^This..

Again prayer is not about getting wishes granted it is about changing the heart and the mind of the one praying, to the point they are willing to fill those needs they see/pray about.

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Both are perfectly justifiable reasons to feel irritated. Imho.

Here's another example. I know you don't have to take my testimony at face value, but it is what it is.

I've spoken enough - far too much, actually - of the trouble that Shell and I have been having with a guy who believes himself to be xtian (when it suits him, anyway). He is truly unbalanced, manipulative, domineering, and a really detestable piece of work. A couple of months ago, she was in his car, despite all my exhortations against having anything to do with him, and she rang me up so I could hear him kicking off at her. What I heard on that call chilled me to the core and will never leave me.

He was quite literally deranged. He was screaming and babbling about Shell being possessed of an unclean spirit and kept ordering it to leave her body. He was shouting to his lord to come down and save her and him, I mean literally screaming it out like some drugged-up televangelist. When she tried to say anything, he shouted at her viciously - she told me right in her face - to shut up and stop disrespecting his praying. He started spouting random gibberish, which is supposed to be speaking in tongues. I couldn't see him, thank fuck, but I imagined and Shell later confirmed that he was shaking, sweating, blood vessels bulging, eyes popping, drooling, basically he'd lost it. It was the closest I've ever been to true insanity. I kept telling Shell to get the fuck out of that car and to a place with other people. This is a guy, you may remember, who once tried to push her out of a moving vehilce into oncoming traffic. Who knows what the fuck he was going to do in this utterly deranged state?

Thankfully, he calmed down enough to give her chance to get out of there and escape. But she still has nightmares about him coming into her home and doing it again.

I truly wish I was making this up.

....And if that weren't an example of prayer? Or really anything outside this guys idea of religion?
Truly, when did Christ or any of the Apostles ever have to make a show like that ever in the bible? Just one command is given to exorcise a demon or even a whole legion of them was ever used.

[Cyberman]

this forum is abouth atheism...so...the belief in no God or deities...why is this forum full of topics about religions then?

Our Rules page explains it quite clearly:

The Purpose of Atheist Forums

The forums were created for the purpose of providing friendly discussion and debate between atheists and other like-minded individuals, as well as theists.

And atheism isn't the belief in no no gods; it's the withholding of belief until claims about gods are demonstrated to be true. Atheists can believe in all sorts of things, but by definition gods are not among them.

[Drich]

I don't think you understand how our beliefs work.

We don't believe in a God who is a wizard with a magic wand and who will make food appear out of thin air for the poor people we pray for. That's not really how it works. When we "pray for the poor," our hope is not for something supernatural, but for them to be granted some emotional strength to get through tough times... or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them. For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through.

...things like that.

---

I have asked for people to pray for me before, because I'm a Christian and it brings me comfort to know that ppl are praying for me. Likewise, I let ppl know when I pray for them bc I want to give them the same comfort I get when others pray for me. No selfishness.

You obviously do not speak for all Christians. The pentecostals who comprise my nuclear family certainly do believe in magical responses from god. Food appearing, money, jobs, cancer "you foul demon begone".

So you would condemn all of Christianity because one branch acts in a way you would deem foolish?

[vorlon13]

By fostering a 'group think' activity like prayer with relatively easily generated confirmation bias the church hierarchy is essentially purchasing 'street cred' for other, less benign activities they might wish to pursue.


Church announcements this week:

"Yeppers, we all prayed for a speedy recovery for Eunice and her hysterectomy and she's already back at services this week !! YEA !!"

"And keep little Timmy in your prayers this week, he's headed to the state tournament!"

"Pray for the victims in that bus wreck in La Paz too"

"Also, we are defending vigorously the lawsuit from our former church secretary, so we would like your support on that too"


And now let's all sing "Hosanna, Hosanna!" . . . .

[Catholic_Lady]

You obviously do not speak for all Christians. The pentecostals who comprise my nuclear family certainly do believe in magical responses from god. Food appearing, money, jobs, cancer "you foul demon begone".

So does the roman catholic church, by the way. It's just that most catholics are embarrased by that nonsense.

Edit: thinking about it more many catholics I know who squirm mightily if reminded of that type of prayer still regularly go into church pay €0.20 to light tea candles and pray for wealth, jobs, surgeries to go right etc. So for a lot of people the embarrasment is in having to qcknowledge they believe nonsense.

Incorrect. As usual. 

Honestly, you spew so much false information about Catholicism here. If you don't know anything about something, don't talk about it. It just makes you look dumb.

[Homeless Nutter]

So you would condemn all of Christianity because one branch acts in a way you would deem foolish?

You all act like morons, when you're begging your imaginary friends for favors. You might just as well be rubbing old lamps, or leaving wine and cookies for the gnomes. In order to comfortably be a christian, you need to either completely lack critical thinking skills, or be a nut-job. Or both - as the case may be...