"Birth Control," as an idiom, implies use of a method or substance regularly that prevents pregnancy. So, when you state that most women are using abortion as convenience birth control, the implication is that these women are using abortion in lieu of contraceptives.

This is clearly not the case.

Also, when I said you are choosing the fetus' life over the woman's life, I didn't mean her existence, and I apologize for not making that clear. I mean the life she chooses. I mean her professional goals, her family life, her education, her financial situation. If a woman doesn't want a baby, doesn't want to be pregnant, doesn't want to put her body through that, what right do you have to stop her from doing so? What right do you have to shame her because she made that choice?

The fringe media would like you to envision every abortion as a fully formed baby being tossed in a blender (and then sold for parts). In fact, it is most often a collection of cells. It is most often the maternal blood or renal cells or embryonic stem cells that are donated to clinics doing research so that actual, real life, wanted babies can be saved.

The idea that you should feel like it's okay for you to make decisions about someone else's reproductive system is just ludicrous.

Since you blatantly ignored my question:

(July 25, 2015 at 12:25 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Do you really believe this Lek? In a world where a few bucks buys a variety of contraceptives, women are opting for an expensive medical treatment instead?!? Seriously?

(July 25, 2015 at 2:58 pm)Lek Wrote: Is this an example of using abortion for birth control?  I think it is.  If we disagree then we are at an impasse.

No, Lek. What that shows is that (in most cases) the contraceptives didn't work and the woman who didn't want to become pregnant in the first place now has to make one of the toughest choices she'll ever have to make. A choice you are in no position whatsoever to make for her.

(July 25, 2015 at 3:46 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Also, when I said you are choosing the fetus' life over the woman's life, I didn't mean her existence, and I apologize for not making that clear. I mean the life she chooses. I mean her professional goals, her family life, her education, her financial situation. If a woman doesn't want a baby, doesn't want to be pregnant, doesn't want to put her body through that, what right do you have to stop her from doing so? What right do you have to shame her because she made that choice?

I just don't put these reasons ahead of human life.  We don't know when a fetus is a human.  If you held a revolver with one bullet in it, and didn't know if the one bullet was in the chamber, would you point it at a child and pull he trigger, because not pulling the trigger was going to hamper your career or your education?

(July 25, 2015 at 4:07 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Since you blatantly ignored my question:
[quote='SnakeOilWarrior' pid='1004499' dateline='1437798357']
Do you really believe this Lek? In a world where a few bucks buys a variety of contraceptives, women are opting for an expensive medical treatment instead?!? Seriously?

No. I just think that when other forms of birth control don't work then they are having abortions as another method of birth control.

(July 25, 2015 at 5:06 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 25, 2015 at 3:46 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Also, when I said you are choosing the fetus' life over the woman's life, I didn't mean her existence, and I apologize for not making that clear. I mean the life she chooses. I mean her professional goals, her family life, her education, her financial situation. If a woman doesn't want a baby, doesn't want to be pregnant, doesn't want to put her body through that, what right do you have to stop her from doing so? What right do you have to shame her because she made that choice?

I just don't put these reasons ahead of human life.  We don't know when a fetus is a human.  If you held a revolver with one bullet in it, and didn't know if the one bullet was in the chamber, would you point it at a child and pull he trigger, because not pulling the trigger was going to hamper your career or your education?

Why should it matter when a fetus becomes a human?  The point is that the woman simply does not want to  produce another person for whatever reason.  So why should society force her to when it generally doesn't give a rat's ass about the living children in its midst?

(July 25, 2015 at 5:06 pm)Lek Wrote: If you held a revolver with one bullet in it, and didn't know if the one bullet was in the chamber, would you point it at a child and pull he trigger, because not pulling the trigger was going to hamper your career or your education?

Equating a child to a fetus does not bolster your argument. In fact, it make you look like a clueless fuck-tard.

(July 25, 2015 at 5:10 pm)Lek Wrote: No.  I just think that when other forms of birth control don't work then they are having abortions as another method of birth control.

And you completely disregard the facts that they were already trying to avoid pregnancy in the first place and that they made what is probably the toughest decision they ever have to make.

Fuck you Lek. Until you grow a pussy (instead of being one) you don't ever have to make that type of decision. In fact, you're not even qualified.

(July 25, 2015 at 5:10 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 25, 2015 at 4:07 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Since you blatantly ignored my question:

(July 25, 2015 at 12:25 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Do you really believe this Lek? In a world where a few bucks buys a variety of contraceptives, women are opting for an expensive medical treatment instead?!? Seriously?

No.  I just think that when other forms of birth control don't work then they are having abortions as another method of birth control.

That's not what you said before. You said it was for reasons of 'convenience.'

So what, having a MAP, being on a pill or using a condom is more inconvenient than an abortion in your eyes? I'm more than willing to accept that some girls/women might have that view (until they start the process), but inferring from you original point of 'most' abortions being as a result of this decision making process, I think this above statement is an example of:

(July 25, 2015 at 5:12 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(July 25, 2015 at 5:06 pm)Lek Wrote: I just don't put these reasons ahead of human life.  We don't know when a fetus is a human.  If you held a revolver with one bullet in it, and didn't know if the one bullet was in the chamber, would you point it at a child and pull he trigger, because not pulling the trigger was going to hamper your career or your education?

Why should it matter when a fetus becomes a human?  The point is that the woman simply does not want to  produce another person for whatever reason.  So why should society force her to when it generally doesn't give a rat's ass about the living children in its midst?

The reason that it matters whether or not the fetus is a human is because I assume, that in our society, we reject killing human beings because we want to further our education, or whatever.

(July 25, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: That's not what you said before. You said it was for reasons of 'convenience.'

So what, having a MAP, being on a pill or using a condom is more inconvenient than an abortion in your eyes? I'm more than willing to accept that some girls/women might have that view (until they start the process), but inferring from you original point of 'most' abortions being as a result of this decision making process, I think this above statement is an example of:

Actually, the convenience is to have the abortion rather than raising a child.

...which isn't what you said earlier either. You only said that it was matter of convenience that girls/women had an abortion in the first place. There was no mention of anything else until you then posted the other link.

And this is bracketing out the fact that you are yet to provide ANY evidence in the way of your claim that 'most abortions' are for a matter of 'convenience'. You even presumed the financial stability of these 'most' mothers in that statement, so I'd also like some evidence on that claim too, please.

Or you could retract a statement you know you made without any substianal evidence to back up, on a subject you know nothing about in a field that you have never studied. I know you desperately want to shoe horn the reality of the situation into the small box of your beliefs,mbut it isn't going to fly.