The church building where I was originally 12 Stepped would be something along the lines of the topic here. The congregation and staff there were supportive for allowing a gay AA meeting in their building, especially considering it was nearly 30 years ago.

As for the numerous church funeral services I attended for friends lost to HIV, without exception, they were all miserable fucking experiences. Particularly Brian's when the pastor advised those present to not follow Brian's bad example . . .

If I had even 0.01% of the power that little girl in Firestarter had, that pastor would have been reduced to a grease spot and wisp of smoke from my stink eye.

I thought what I was experiencing with religion was happiness until I discovered true happiness by becoming an atheist.

Church ladies here make a great apple pie.

(August 4, 2015 at 10:28 pm)Cephus Wrote: Who cares?  Happiness isn't a valid demonstration of reality.  The most comforting lie in the world is still a lie, the most uncomfortable truth is still the truth.  Anyone whose worldview is only based on being happy is an irrational idiot.

Nobody ever asked for a world view. What I asked is if the lie(religion) actually makes people happy. The only reason why I ask is because of the subjectivity of happiness. You pretty much proved my point.

The only reason why I ask is because of the subjectivity of happiness.

Interesting, could you elaborate?

Ex catholic.

Guilt, anxiety, guilt, shame, guilt, boredom, guilt, fear, guilt. No happiness ever entered the picture.

(August 5, 2015 at 2:39 am)Kitan Wrote: The only reason why I ask is because of the subjectivity of happiness.

Interesting, could you elaborate?

Happiness is relative to the person and what they find qualifies as a moment worth being happy. Religion makes many people happy and many miserable. I don't see what is so complex about this.

(August 5, 2015 at 2:48 am)ComradeMeow Wrote: Happiness is relative to the person and what they find qualifies as a moment worth being happy. Religion makes many people happy and many miserable. I don't see what is so complex about this.

I was just wondering if you viewed happiness to the same degree that I do; that it's mostly perception that we create through delusion.  In reality, happiness is about as certain as winning the lottery.  What happiness represents is one's willingness to ignore reality.

(August 5, 2015 at 2:50 am)Kitan Wrote:

(August 5, 2015 at 2:48 am)ComradeMeow Wrote: Happiness is relative to the person and what they find qualifies as a moment worth being happy. Religion makes many people happy and many miserable. I don't see what is so complex about this.

I was just wondering if you viewed happiness to the same degree that I do; that it's mostly perception that we create through delusion.  In reality, happiness is about as certain as winning the lottery.  What happiness represents is one's willingness to ignore reality.

You are reminding my of myself and my pessimism. Siddhartha Gautama concluded that all of life is suffering from birth to death. I believe this is the case and can understand why delusion is necessary although I wouldn't go as far to say that all of happiness is found in delusion.

(August 5, 2015 at 2:56 am)ComradeMeow Wrote: You are reminding my of myself and my pessimism. 

Pessimism is such an ugly word.  I am a realist, for reality is much sweeter than any rose colored glasses.