Ah, he won't speak to me.

Well, too bad. Screw him. If he decides to grow up and stop being such a whining little dick, we can have a chat. No one else I know acts like this.

Those are not god's words, they are words in a book which people have told you are from god. Big difference.

(August 7, 2015 at 11:01 am)robvalue Wrote: Ah, he won't speak to me.

Well, too bad. Screw him. If he decides to grow up and stop being such a whining little dick, we can have a chat. No one else I know acts like this.

Those are not god's words, they are words in a book which people have told you are from god. Big difference.

Are you just making this assertion so that you don't have to face facts? What kind of research have you done on the Bible to support your claim? If you actually spoke to Him what would you say? Do you even what to talk to Him?

(August 8, 2015 at 8:11 am)Rekeisha Wrote:

(August 7, 2015 at 11:01 am)robvalue Wrote: Ah, he won't speak to me.

Well, too bad. Screw him. If he decides to grow up and stop being such a whining little dick, we can have a chat. No one else I know acts like this.

Those are not god's words, they are words in a book which people have told you are from god. Big difference.

Are you just making this assertion so that you don't have to face facts? What kind of research have you done on the Bible to support your claim? If you actually spoke to Him what would you say? Do you even what to talk to Him?

I don't know what kind of research he's done, but I've done a shit-ton into science, mythology, human storytelling, etc., and I can tell you for absolute certain that the Bible is exactly what you'd expect from a bunch of primitive humans over the course of thousands of years and NOTHING like what you could reasonably expect from a perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing deity who can talk to people inside their heads with his telepathy magic. The Bible is full of contradictions and horrendous immorality on the part of Gaud himself, so the most likely explanation is that it was written by people who were inspired by speculation and hallucination. Why do you think so many shamanic religions are so into drugs? Sober people don't come up with shit like that unless they're crazy.

(August 9, 2015 at 2:08 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(August 8, 2015 at 8:11 am)Rekeisha Wrote: Are you just making this assertion so that you don't have to face facts? What kind of research have you done on the Bible to support your claim? If you actually spoke to Him what would you say? Do you even what to talk to Him?

I don't know what kind of research he's done, but I've done a shit-ton into science, mythology, human storytelling, etc., and I can tell you for absolute certain that the Bible is exactly what you'd expect from a bunch of primitive humans over the course of thousands of years and NOTHING like what you could reasonably expect from a perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing deity who can talk to people inside their heads with his telepathy magic. The Bible is full of contradictions and horrendous immorality on the part of Gaud himself, so the most likely explanation is that it was written by people who were inspired by speculation and hallucination. Why do you think so many shamanic religions are so into drugs? Sober people don't come up with shit like that unless they're crazy.

Could you explain 1) what would an all knowing all perfect all powerful God be like? 2) what contradictions are you talking about? 3) how long have you been studing the bible? 4) do you think you have a biasis against there being a God? 5) If you do or don't why are you a trustworthy source for the truth? 6) what are your qualifications for a primitive society and why are you labeling the ancient jew/hebrews this way? 7) is morality subjective? 8) if morality is subjective then why are you attempting to subject God to your standard? 9) Have you done a study on reality and hallucinatuons? 10) how do you know what is real?

(August 9, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Rekeisha Wrote:

(August 9, 2015 at 2:08 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: I don't know what kind of research he's done, but I've done a shit-ton into science, mythology, human storytelling, etc., and I can tell you for absolute certain that the Bible is exactly what you'd expect from a bunch of primitive humans over the course of thousands of years and NOTHING like what you could reasonably expect from a perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing deity who can talk to people inside their heads with his telepathy magic. The Bible is full of contradictions and horrendous immorality on the part of Gaud himself, so the most likely explanation is that it was written by people who were inspired by speculation and hallucination. Why do you think so many shamanic religions are so into drugs? Sober people don't come up with shit like that unless they're crazy.

Could you explain 1) what would an all knowing all perfect all powerful God be like? 2) what contradictions are you talking about? 3) how long have you been studing the bible? 4) do you think you have a biasis against there being a God? 5) If you do or don't why are you a trustworthy source for the truth? 6) what are your qualifications for a primitive society and why are you labeling the ancient jew/hebrews this way? 7) is morality subjective? 8) if morality is subjective then why are you attempting to subject God to your standard? 9) Have you done a study on reality and hallucinatuons? 10) how do you know what is real?

I'm sorry, but is this the kind of gobbledygook that theists have reduced their arguments to? Are we real...or in the Matrix? Lol! 
And what's with all the questions? Shouldn't those who lack belief be asking you the questions? Good grief.
Do you come to this forum to hone your apolgetics?? Because if you do.....YIKES!
Pardon the interruption, I couldn't help myself. Carry on and proceed.

(August 9, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: Could you explain 1) what would an all knowing all perfect all powerful God be like? 2) what contradictions are you talking about? 3) how long have you been studing the bible? 4) do you think you have a biasis against there being a God? 5) If you do or don't why are you a trustworthy source for the truth? 6) what are your qualifications for a primitive society and why are you labeling the ancient jew/hebrews this way? 7) is morality subjective? 8) if morality is subjective then why are you attempting to subject God to your standard? 9) Have you done a study on reality and hallucinatuons? 10) how do you know what is real?

With pleasure.


1) For one thing, I fully expect such a being to create a system that doesn't break down the way free will seems to have done. For another, I fully expect a perfect being to be able to get us a message far more perfect than the construct you call the bible. For that matter, I expect an all-powerful being to be able to speak for himself at all times, not just until he stopped doing that about 2,000 years ago. I expect an all-loving, all-powerful being to be significantly more effective than any human effort at stopping all human suffering. For that matter, I expect an all-loving being to create a system that is devoid of suffering.

You might say that suffering is necessary for personal growth. If that's true, it's because god created it that way. He's the one that decided that suffering was necessary for personal growth and then created everything so that this would be true. If he's really all-powerful, he could have just as easily created a system where suffering wasn't even a thing and the only things necessary for personal growth were laying around and eating and cumming all day. Either he wants us to suffer (and therefore deliberately designed things this way) or he can't prevent our suffering (and therefore HAD to design things this way). If it's the first, he is malicious and therefore not all-loving. If it's the second, then he is not all-powerful.

Furthermore, I expect an all-perfect, all-powerful being to be able to do absolutely anything and everything I could do only better, and you know something? I'm able to forgive people without having to take revenge on them, and without having to put my rage off on something else just to be able to move on. When someone wrongs me, I don't require their blood for forgiveness, I don't require them to spill the blood of any animals for forgiveness, and I sure as FUCK don't have my own child viciously executed as an outlet for my frustration or because it's somehow necessary for my forgiveness to take place. I can just take a deep breath, get the fuck over it, and move on with my life.

Gaud, on the other hand, has to spill blood in order to be able to coexist with humans who go against his will, whether it's the blood of animals, humans, or his own damn son (and himself...or whatever). If he chooses not to forgive without murdering something, then he is not even as loving as I am. If he is not able to forgive without murdering something, then he is not even as powerful as I am. If he is neither more loving nor more powerful than I am, why should I revere or worship him? I'm a better person than he is.


2) Here's a start: Bible contradictions. The internet is full of lists like that. Google magic. To list at least one myself, the bible claims Jehovah is all-loving and the absolute source of moral instruction, and yet he condones genocide, rape, and slavery in various places throughout the bible (slavery in both testaments). The idea that slavery was wrong didn't even mostly occur to people until well after the bible was done being written and arranged. If the bible is the absolute source of morality, and we now agree that slavery is absolutely morally wrong, then why isn't abolition a thing in the bible?


3) I've been studying the bible since I could read, so a little over 20 years. Furthermore, my father is a preacher and I'm an advanced biblical apologist, so I've been exposed to (and have previously used) arguments and schools of thought from very sophisticated branches of theology.


4) A bias against it? No. A good reason for believing it doesn't exist? Yes. For one thing, a position of non-belief/non-knowledge is by far the most responsible concerning anything supernatural because there is no evidence of anything supernatural. Furthermore, god by every definition I understand is an impossible object, and all available evidence points to the very concept of god being an abstract fiction created by humans for various purposes. To put it bluntly, we have every reason to believe that humans made the gods up and no reason whatsoever to believe in the existence of any of humanity's gods (excepting human rulers who were attributed deity-hood, but those are humans, not gods).


5) My source for truth is not myself. It's the evidence of the world around me. When I was a religious person, my source for truth was ultimately myself and my interpretation (though I thought at the time this was the inspired voice of god in my head). Now I appeal to a higher authority: reality.


6) The ancient jews qualify as a primitive society because their knowledge and tech were practically non-existent, their morals and myths are barbaric and savage, and their utter lack of human rights and equality is utterly backward by today's standard and completely typical of an uninformed, superstitious, Bronze Age society.


7) Yes, morality is completely subjective, though it can be informed by objective facts (i.e. humans objectively exist and are social animals, suffering objectively exists, empathy objectively exists, etc.). There is no objective source of moral truth.


8) This question doesn't really make any sense.


9) I have studied science, sociology, and psychology to some level of detail, and I am a trained hypnotist and magician. I have a pretty strong understanding of how human perception works and interacts with the mind to create a basis for reality.

10) I know what's real because there's proof of what's real. It's that simple.

I've done plenty of research about the bible. It's become clear I know way more than many Christians, both about its content and its history. That should be very worrying, considering I only started studying it a year or two ago.

I don't ever claim absolutely certainty about anything, I have the awareness to note that I could be wrong about anything at all. However, that doesn't mean I am wrong all the time about everything, nor does it mean I should give the time of day to unfounded magical claims with no evidence behind them.

As Redbeard has said, the bible is exactly what I would expect from a load of very human humans trying to explain the universe in a primitive way, and making up stories. I take it no more seriously than any other work of fiction I read. Do I endlessly worry that Sauron might actually be real? No, because I have no reason to think so. The moment there is any actual evidence Sauron is real, I'll happily check it out. Same for the foolish parade of obviously made up characters in the bible.

But by all means, ask the stupid Christian God to come talk to me if he's not too busy pretending to not exist and hiding from science. I haven't got time for frigging peek-a-boo, I grew out of that when I was about 2. If he wants to man up, grow some balls, grow some hair on his spine, he should know where to find me. If not, I'll just keep talking smack about him and Jesus and people will keep throwing empty threats at me about how I'm going to regret it after I'm dead.

And anyone who takes those insults personally is only proving my point that gods only exist inside people's heads.

OPs video and post reminded me of this video






Dude looks like Drake. LOL

(August 10, 2015 at 1:55 pm)robvalue Wrote: I've done plenty of research about the bible. It's become clear I know way more than many Christians, both about its content and its history. That should be very worrying, considering I only started studying it a year or two ago.

I don't ever claim absolutely certainty about anything, I have the awareness to note that I could be wrong about anything at all. However, that doesn't mean I am wrong all the time about everything, nor does it mean I should give the time of day to unfounded magical claims with no evidence behind them.

As Redbeard has said, the bible is exactly what I would expect from a load of very human humans trying to explain the universe in a primitive way, and making up stories. I take it no more seriously than any other work of fiction I read. Do I endlessly worry that Sauron might actually be real? No, because I have no reason to think so. The moment there is any actual evidence Sauron is real, I'll happily check it out. Same for the foolish parade of obviously made up characters in the bible.

But by all means, ask the stupid Christian God to come talk to me if he's not too busy pretending to not exist and hiding from science. I haven't got time for frigging peek-a-boo, I grew out of that when I was about 2. If he wants to man up, grow some balls, grow some hair on his spine, he should know where to find me. If not, I'll just keep talking smack about him and Jesus and people will keep throwing empty threats at me about how I'm going to regret it after I'm dead.

And anyone who takes those insults personally is only proving my point that gods only exist inside people's heads.

Who do you think you are? I've had personal experiences with Sauron. Are you calling me a liar? Are you saying the universe created itself out of nothing? Look at a tree!

You're just angry with Sauron you sad little man. You don't want to admit you were made out of a slime puddle by orcs. You need to rub your face in the dirt and beg Sauron to send you to not-too-bad hell. Or else you're going to really-bad-hell!

Sauron has a plan for you, and when the time is right, you'll see and you'll wished you had listened to my unsupported ravings.

(August 11, 2015 at 4:40 am)robvalue Wrote:

(August 10, 2015 at 1:55 pm)robvalue Wrote: I've done plenty of research about the bible. It's become clear I know way more than many Christians, both about its content and its history. That should be very worrying, considering I only started studying it a year or two ago.

..
But by all means, ask the stupid Christian God to come talk to me if he's not too busy pretending to not exist and hiding from science. I haven't got time for frigging peek-a-boo, I grew out of that when I was about 2. If he wants to man up, grow some balls, grow some hair on his spine, he should know where to find me. If not, I'll just keep talking smack about him and Jesus and people will keep throwing empty threats at me about how I'm going to regret it after I'm dead.

And anyone who takes those insults personally is only proving my point that gods only exist inside people's heads.

Who do you think you are? I've had personal experiences with Sauron. Are you calling me a liar? Are you saying the universe created itself out of nothing? Look at a tree!

You're just angry with Sauron you sad little man. You don't want to admit you were made out of a slime puddle by orcs. You need to rub your face in the dirt and beg Sauron to send you to not-too-bad hell. Or else you're going to really-bad-hell!

Sauron has a plan for you, and when the time is right, you'll see and you'll wished you had listened to my unsupported ravings.

Don't get upset at the atheist not agreeing with you with the customary emotional "reach around" theists are used to. You'll get to laugh in his face when he's burning in hell and begging you for a drop of water to cool his tongue.

Quote: Luke 16:24
"And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

Sweet huh!