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God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 3:31 pm
I’ve started taking notes during sermons to stave off boredom and to give myself some ammo for any debates I may find myself getting into with a Christian. Even though last Sunday was the first time that I started taking notes, I believe I’ve found a very interesting discrepancy in one of the Bible verses my pastor quoted.
For the sermon, my pastor quoted part of Genesis 6:4 (King James Version): “There were giants in the earth in those days...” My pastor conveniently forgot to quote the rest of the passage, which reads, “...and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
Now, if I have read the Bible correctly, Jesus is supposed to be the son of God. “And lo a voice from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17; KJV).
If I were to take the Bible literally, this one verse in Genesis would be a blatant discrepancy that would make me seriously question the validity of Jesus’ claim to be the son of God. I’d like to point out that the phrase “ sons of God” does not magically disappear in other translations [Here’s a link to an online Bible--->[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=KJV]. However, if I were to make a more moderate interpretation of this particular verse (the phrase “sons of God” referring to angels instead of multiple sons of God), there is still an issue as to why the writers/editors of the Bible did not rewrite this verse to fit more evenly with the New Testament. If God indeed had more than one son (i.e. Jesus), is it possible that there could be “grandchildren of God?” It's a strange question, I know, but it's one that has been on my mind for the past couple of days.[/align]
What is your take on these verses?
"If your god has to make peace with me in my final hour when he has my whole lifetime to prove his existence to me...do you think I should bother?"
"But the happiness of an atheist is neither the vacuous enjoyment of a fool, nor the short-lived pleasure of a rogue. It is rather the expression of a disposition that has ceased to torture itself with foolish fancies, or perplex itself with useless beliefs." - Chapman Cohen
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 3:42 pm
oh! oh! shit, there's a podcast I listened to that interviewed Bob M Price (*great* resource for you, btw) where he discussed this particular portion of the OT. It won't answer all of your post, but it'll give you some interesting insight. Soon as I get home from work I'll check my files. Also, there's an episode of the podcast "Monster Talk" that discusses giants and how people came to think there were any with an archaeologist - also worth a listen. It's an entertaining podcast no matter what - sort of a rebuttal to the "Monster Quest" on the pseudo-History Channel. They try to lay science next to cryptozoology, and in the process a lot of good stuff about evolution and the scientific method comes out.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Thank you so much for the info! I will try to find that podcast!
"If your god has to make peace with me in my final hour when he has my whole lifetime to prove his existence to me...do you think I should bother?"
"But the happiness of an atheist is neither the vacuous enjoyment of a fool, nor the short-lived pleasure of a rogue. It is rather the expression of a disposition that has ceased to torture itself with foolish fancies, or perplex itself with useless beliefs." - Chapman Cohen
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 4:05 pm
If I can recommend a few others, Dogma Free America discusses various religious wrong doings and such in America and around the world. Rich Orman is freakin' hilarious in a very dry style. It's worth downloading them all and starting from the beginning. Also Skeptoid is an excellent podcast.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 4:06 pm
(This post was last modified: October 27, 2010 at 4:08 pm by Minimalist.)
There is a great deal of dispute about the word which is (apparently poorly) translated as "Giants."
Quote:The word nephilim is from the root nun-peh-lamed, which means to fall. The meaning of the word nephilim, at its simplest interpretation, is the fallen ones or the fallible ones.
Most translations admit that they do not know what the word means and simply use the term "nephilim" without translation. However, there is always the abysmal KJV which fundies swear by and that notoriously lousy translation persists in using the incorrect term "giants." Figures. Garbage in - garbage out.
http://bible.cc/genesis/6-4.htm
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 5:12 pm
(October 27, 2010 at 4:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: There is a great deal of dispute about the word which is (apparently poorly) translated as "Giants."
Quote:The word nephilim is from the root nun-peh-lamed, which means to fall. The meaning of the word nephilim, at its simplest interpretation, is the fallen ones or the fallible ones.
Most translations admit that they do not know what the word means and simply use the term "nephilim" without translation. However, there is always the abysmal KJV which fundies swear by and that notoriously lousy translation persists in using the incorrect term "giants." Figures. Garbage in - garbage out.
http://bible.cc/genesis/6-4.htm
Now that you mention it, I thought it was strange how all of the translations except the KJV used the term "nephilim" instead of "giants." Hmm...is it possible that the KJV translators made up the story of David and Goliath to go along with their translation in Genesis 6:4?
"If your god has to make peace with me in my final hour when he has my whole lifetime to prove his existence to me...do you think I should bother?"
"But the happiness of an atheist is neither the vacuous enjoyment of a fool, nor the short-lived pleasure of a rogue. It is rather the expression of a disposition that has ceased to torture itself with foolish fancies, or perplex itself with useless beliefs." - Chapman Cohen
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 5:51 pm
(October 27, 2010 at 5:12 pm)Jonah Wrote: (October 27, 2010 at 4:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: There is a great deal of dispute about the word which is (apparently poorly) translated as "Giants."
Quote:The word nephilim is from the root nun-peh-lamed, which means to fall. The meaning of the word nephilim, at its simplest interpretation, is the fallen ones or the fallible ones.
Most translations admit that they do not know what the word means and simply use the term "nephilim" without translation. However, there is always the abysmal KJV which fundies swear by and that notoriously lousy translation persists in using the incorrect term "giants." Figures. Garbage in - garbage out.
http://bible.cc/genesis/6-4.htm
Now that you mention it, I thought it was strange how all of the translations except the KJV used the term "nephilim" instead of "giants." Hmm...is it possible that the KJV translators made up the story of David and Goliath to go along with their translation in Genesis 6:4?
I suggest you read, in this order, Israel Finkelstein's "The Bible Unearthed" and then "David and Solomon."
In the last 30 years, archaeology has trashed the OT. It's plain bullshit.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 6:01 pm
I'll have to look into those books. Thanks for the tip!
Speaking of David and Solomon, I forgot to mention in my original post was the genealogy of Jesus. If Jesus was supposed to be born of a virgin, why does he even [i]have[\i] a genealogy? Joseph wasn't his biological father, so why would he have a bloodline?
"If your god has to make peace with me in my final hour when he has my whole lifetime to prove his existence to me...do you think I should bother?"
"But the happiness of an atheist is neither the vacuous enjoyment of a fool, nor the short-lived pleasure of a rogue. It is rather the expression of a disposition that has ceased to torture itself with foolish fancies, or perplex itself with useless beliefs." - Chapman Cohen
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 6:08 pm
(October 27, 2010 at 6:01 pm)Jonah Wrote: I'll have to look into those books. Thanks for the tip!
Speaking of David and Solomon, I forgot to mention in my original post was the genealogy of Jesus. If Jesus was supposed to be born of a virgin, why does he even [i]have[\i] a genealogy? Joseph wasn't his biological father, so why would he have a bloodline?
Blood line though his mother?
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 27, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Quote:Blood line though his mother?
Neither version even says that. It's just a load of crap.
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