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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 28, 2010 at 6:22 pm
(October 28, 2010 at 3:01 pm)theophilus Wrote: (October 27, 2010 at 3:31 pm)Jonah Wrote: My pastor conveniently forgot to quote the rest of the passage, which reads, “...and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
Now, if I have read the Bible correctly, Jesus is supposed to be the son of God. His sonship was different in that he was always the Son of God. The angels were apparently considered sons of God but they were created while Jesus alsways existed.
If the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis were really angels, why didn't the writers/editors of the Bible fix that little discrepancy? It would have been less confusing if the Bible had just cleared everything up and said they were angels.
"If your god has to make peace with me in my final hour when he has my whole lifetime to prove his existence to me...do you think I should bother?"
"But the happiness of an atheist is neither the vacuous enjoyment of a fool, nor the short-lived pleasure of a rogue. It is rather the expression of a disposition that has ceased to torture itself with foolish fancies, or perplex itself with useless beliefs." - Chapman Cohen
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 28, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Quote:Her genealogy is given in Luke 3
Totally wrong, Theo.
Quote:Luke 3
23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
the son of Neri, 28the son of Melki,
the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon,
the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
the son of David, 32the son of Jesse,
the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,
the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon,
33the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e]
the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,
the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob,
the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan,
the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.
Have you even read this shit?
It is Matthew 1 which makes a ludicrous comment about "Mary" ( probably an interpolation when someone realized they had fucked up.)
Quote:Matthew 1
1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
There is no way that even you could interpret THAT as being "Mary's" geneology.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 28, 2010 at 10:29 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2010 at 10:30 pm by Jonah.)
I find the whole of Jesus' genealogy to be completely ludicrous. I mean, if Jesus can claim to be related King David without having any blood ties to him, couldn't I claim that I'm related to Bill Gates?
As Leonidas would say, "This is madness!"
"If your god has to make peace with me in my final hour when he has my whole lifetime to prove his existence to me...do you think I should bother?"
"But the happiness of an atheist is neither the vacuous enjoyment of a fool, nor the short-lived pleasure of a rogue. It is rather the expression of a disposition that has ceased to torture itself with foolish fancies, or perplex itself with useless beliefs." - Chapman Cohen
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 29, 2010 at 4:57 am
(October 28, 2010 at 3:45 am)theVOID Wrote: Wow, using one book of fairy tales to counter another, how productive.
How extremely shite indeedy.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 29, 2010 at 2:38 pm
(October 28, 2010 at 10:29 pm)Jonah Wrote: I find the whole of Jesus' genealogy to be completely ludicrous. I mean, if Jesus can claim to be related King David without having any blood ties to him, couldn't I claim that I'm related to Bill Gates? He was related by blood through his mother. It was through Joseph that Jesus was heir to the kingship. Joseph wasn't his biological father but because he was married to Mary when Jesus was born he was legally his father.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20 ESV
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 29, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Even by your low standards that is ridiculous.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 29, 2010 at 4:52 pm
(October 27, 2010 at 6:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Blood line though his mother?
Neither version even says that. It's just a load of crap.
My limited understanding ,based on reading Jewish explanation of Messiahanic prophecy is:The Messiah will be of the Davidic line and a warrior-priest like David. Oh yeah, and the Messiah WILL NOT DIE.
The convolutions of Christian apologists to make Jesus fit prophecy gets very silly very quickly.The most recent Jewish contender for Messiah was an Hasidic Rabbi in C20Th.
In Jewish tradition,by definition a Jew is a person with a Jewish mother. There is no such thing as 'half Jewish.' You either are or are not a Jew.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 29, 2010 at 8:32 pm
(October 29, 2010 at 4:52 pm)padraic Wrote: (October 27, 2010 at 6:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Blood line though his mother?
Neither version even says that. It's just a load of crap.
My limited understanding ,based on reading Jewish explanation of Messiahanic prophecy is:The Messiah will be of the Davidic line and a warrior-priest like David. Oh yeah, and the Messiah WILL NOT DIE.
The convolutions of Christian apologists to make Jesus fit prophecy gets very silly very quickly.The most recent Jewish contender for Messiah was an Hasidic Rabbi in C20Th.
In Jewish tradition,by definition a Jew is a person with a Jewish mother. There is no such thing as 'half Jewish.' You either are or are not a Jew.
Mary's genealogy isn't listed in the Bible. Could this possibly mean that Mary wasn't Jewish? If Mary wasn't Jewish, could this mean that Jesus wasn't Jewish?
"If your god has to make peace with me in my final hour when he has my whole lifetime to prove his existence to me...do you think I should bother?"
"But the happiness of an atheist is neither the vacuous enjoyment of a fool, nor the short-lived pleasure of a rogue. It is rather the expression of a disposition that has ceased to torture itself with foolish fancies, or perplex itself with useless beliefs." - Chapman Cohen
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 29, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Mary is nothing more than later chrome invented to fill out the story.
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RE: God's Child(ren)?
October 29, 2010 at 11:49 pm
(October 29, 2010 at 9:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Mary is nothing more than later chrome invented to fill out the story.
The mean brusqueness of jesus' manner to his mother can't be invented. Mary was the mother to an ingrate turnip of a son. More likely Jesus was illegitimate and conceived in circumstances that made everyone know he can't be legitimate. He knew it, and invented the divine parentage and descent from david to have it both ways while attempting to save face. Also his emotional relationship with his mother and Joseph must be very complex due to his illegitimacy.
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