(September 15, 2015 at 3:11 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Well, only if you consider an omniscient creator of the universe as reasonable.

The OP made that a given for purposes of this thread. It's disingenuous to assert it's debatable now.

(September 15, 2015 at 3:18 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(September 15, 2015 at 3:11 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Well, only if you consider an omniscient creator of the universe as reasonable.

The OP made that a given for purposes of this thread. It's disingenuous to assert it's debatable now.

First, I didn't assert that, and second, the OP isn't the only person having the discussion.

An accusation of disingenuity coming from you, though, is a hoot.

This is really pathetic, but becoming all too frequent.

Atheist 1: If god exists, then [argument against god]

Theist: Refutes [argument against god]

Atheist 2: Yeah, but you can't prove god exists

I mean seriously? Are you people that freaking lame? Answer: yes, you are.

You should just stop doing it. You apparently don't realize how stupid it makes you look.

(September 15, 2015 at 3:24 pm)alpha male Wrote: This is really pathetic, but becoming all too frequent.

Atheist 1: If god exists, then [argument against god]

Theist: Refutes [argument against god]

Atheist 2: Yeah, but you can't prove god exists

I mean seriously? Are you people that freaking lame? Answer: yes, you are.

You should just stop doing it. You apparently don't realize how stupid it makes you look.

Oh, please. Get over yourself.

(September 15, 2015 at 2:44 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(September 15, 2015 at 2:18 pm)Losty Wrote: Oh crap, I forgot. It's only ok for god to kill people right...

Right. Rolling your eyes isn't an argument. It's not unreasonable to propose that the omniscient creator of the universe has greater rights than his creation.

Sounds pretty unreasonable to me

(September 15, 2015 at 8:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 15, 2015 at 9:42 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(September 15, 2015 at 8:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

I realized something. Even if babies get a lesser experience in heaven, there's still a lot of be said for killing them. They are guaranteed to go to heaven (according to most people) which has to be pretty good, even in the "lite" version. However, as soon as you don't kill them and they start thinking about stuff, they may choose the wrong religion. Even if we pretend there is only Christianity and Islam, that gives them a 50% chance of no heaven at all. Include every other possible religion and were down to 0%. But let's be charitable and say 10%. Heaven lite 100% seems like a safe bet against 10% better heaven 90% no heaven with optional torture.

(September 15, 2015 at 2:05 pm)alpha male Wrote: I'm logically extending your positions and showing that they lead to conclusions you're not comfortable with.

No, you're not. You tried to pull a tu quoque by saying "we bully animals so it's ok for God to bully us". I don't know how you'd feel about god if he started reaching down and eating members of your family though.

When you found out that tu quoque didn't work on me, you tried to chase me round the houses to try and find some other way to make me look like a hypocrite, in order to complete your originally flawed to quoque. Prison system? What's next? We're totally off topic even for the off topic point. I could answer about prison, but then it would be some other random thing. It seems very important to show its OK for God to do what he wants to us. Of course, if there is a god, he can do what he wants. We would be powerless to stop him victimising weaker beings.

I admit there is some validity to your argument when it's presented to someone who thinks what we do to animals is OK. I hadn't considered that connection before, so points for that! I use the argument about a more intelligent and powerful species than us coming down and enslaving us for meat. Would we say "fair enough"? Doubtful. Arguments about self awareness are a rationalization, that is a totally arbitrary distinction when deciding who gets to do what to what.

Trying to compare raising animals for meat to abortion decisions is ludicrous. So I'll not be continuing the discussion. You already gave me the "reasonable doubt" answer the to the OP, which I would like to credit you for. So let's leave it at that.

(September 15, 2015 at 9:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 15, 2015 at 9:42 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

I KNEW chicks secretly enjoyed pillow fights!