The elephant in the room is that martyrdom beliefs are false, and so an atheist celebrating their martyrdom is nonsensical.

It only works if you buy the beliefs. Assuming y'all are atheists, your posts seem logically incoherent, and the only thing left seems to be the celebratory dancing.

(September 20, 2015 at 12:53 am)Psychonaut Wrote: Furthermore, Wyrd of Gawd has a point,  if one truly believes in martyrdom, the "shahid", and they believe in the sunnah, then it's likely that they would be glad their friends passed on that day. Haven't you seen how glad some people get when people are martyred? They celebrate. I've seen tweets saying their friend/family/etc is now a bird of paradise when they were martyred.

I mean, the martyr is a pretty central part of Christianity and Islam. Look at Jesus, for example.

The best is that when a family member goes the shahid route he gets to take 70 of his family members with him to paradise.

"Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2516

Narrated AbudDarda':

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The intercession of a martyr will be accepted for seventy members of his family."
http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Index.html

That's why so many families urge their children to be suicide bombers.  They are looking for an easy way to get into paradise.

(September 20, 2015 at 12:47 am)Psychonaut Wrote: Not at all, I would assume that the moral objectivist superiority starts when you think your opinion matters outside your own skull, IE: "out there".

People are different, and there are things currently beyond our understanding that influence what they do.

I'm not celebrating anyone's demise, I'm just saying that it's ridiculous that you and Iroscato think that Wyrd of Gawd is "morally wrong". Like some kind of absolute fact. If that's your opinion, fine, but I'd deem it wise to remember that when posting.

Telling people what they "ought" to do is just another way of telling people that you think your cultural/biologically contingent way of life is superior to their culturally/biologically contingent way of life. Simple.

I'm sorry, but where did either abaris or Iroscato tell people what to think or do, or state that their position is superior? Why is it ridiculous to make a moral judgement of someone's actions? I haven't read anything that would indicate they were voicing anything other than their opinion, and I'm not sure where you got that from.

Finding humour in something doesn't hurt anybody by itself. Someone can be both saddened at the reality of a situation yet laugh at the irony of it. That's a long way from stating the whole event is nothing but amusing entertainment, or that we should try and make it happen more. In the case of bizarre accidents like this, anyone's reaction to it isn't going to make it more likely to happen again.

I don't agree with promoting a general hatred towards groups of people, though. That is inciting actual harm. But you don't have to promote hatred to see the irony in the situation. I have to admit it caused me a slight chuckle, as well as being horrified at the reality. That's just human reactions for you, I can't control it. If that means anyone thinks there's something wrong with me, there's not much I can do.

(September 20, 2015 at 8:21 am)robvalue Wrote: Finding humour in something doesn't hurt anybody by itself. Someone can be both saddened at the reality of a situation yet laugh at the irony of it.

For me the line is crossed when treating the death of over a 100 people like a joke. I would be lying if I woulld say, it saddens me on a personal level. I didn't know these people, but I can appreaciate the fact that they all leave family and friends behind, apart from the fact that it was a most horrendous accident. And that's certainly not joke material.

No, I wouldn't present it as a joke. Of course it's incredibly tragic. The horrible death and suffering all life goes through all over the world is a constant crushing force on me.

But sometimes horrible things makes me laugh when I first hear them, because my brain picks up a weird irony or for some other stupid reason. That doesn't mean I'd go around telling it to people as a joke though.

I have offended people in this way before, when I've laughed in what they consider to be an inappropriate way at what they have said. But honestly, I can't help it. It's a reflex!

My brain is probably looking for humour any way it can to cope with the relentless shit pile that is life.

(September 20, 2015 at 8:46 am)robvalue Wrote: But sometimes horrible things makes me laugh when I first hear them, because my brain picks up a weird irony or for some other stupid reason.

I can relate to that. But I would never go public with that sentiment as in HaHa, look what happened.

(September 20, 2015 at 8:43 am)abaris Wrote:

(September 20, 2015 at 8:21 am)robvalue Wrote: Finding humour in something doesn't hurt anybody by itself. Someone can be both saddened at the reality of a situation yet laugh at the irony of it.

For me the line is crossed when treating the death of over a 100 people like a joke. I would be lying if I woulld say, it saddens me on a personal level. I didn't know these people, but I can appreaciate the fact that they all leave family and friends behind, apart from the fact that it was a most horrendous accident. And that's certainly not joke material.

I get what you're saying. I'll make a youtube video of me killing 10000 clowns to cheer you up.

(September 20, 2015 at 8:50 am)abaris Wrote:

(September 20, 2015 at 8:46 am)robvalue Wrote: But sometimes horrible things makes me laugh when I first hear them, because my brain picks up a weird irony or for some other stupid reason.

I can relate to that. But I would never go public with that sentiment as in HaHa, look what happened.

No, I wouldn't do that either.

(September 20, 2015 at 9:42 am)robvalue Wrote: No, I wouldn't do that either.

And that's exactly what I'm on about. It's in bad taste and doesn't paint the best of pictures of the ones doing it. A general lack of empathy, and empathy is the most basic equipment I expect to find in my fellow humans.