Nothing says that the bible cannot be instructive on multiple levels. History is full of object lessons and the same failures are repeated throughout history.

God, apparently...repeatedly fails to successfully instruct.  Some bible...some god.

(September 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Prompted by the thread started by Shuffle (Help Me Understand), this is for the Christians here that do accept evolution. Which is good, since it's been observed many times, in the lab and the field.


All the evidence available, in all the related fields (genetic, fossil, morphology, etc) all prove that modern homo sapiens did not come from one original man and woman. 

There is absolutely no evidence for an 'Adam and Eve'.

Therefore:

No eating of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. 
No 'original sin', no 'fall'.
No fall, no hereditary stain on humanity.
No reason for humanity to be forgiven.
No need for Yahweh to sacrifice his son (himself) in order to forgive humanity.


Please reconcile for me...

Evolution has never been observed anywhere at anytime, period. Besides how does man's manipulation of anything in a lab evolution.

GC

(September 22, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(September 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Prompted by the thread started by Shuffle (Help Me Understand), this is for the Christians here that do accept evolution. Which is good, since it's been observed many times, in the lab and the field.


All the evidence available, in all the related fields (genetic, fossil, morphology, etc) all prove that modern homo sapiens did not come from one original man and woman. 

There is absolutely no evidence for an 'Adam and Eve'.

Therefore:

No eating of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. 
No 'original sin', no 'fall'.
No fall, no hereditary stain on humanity.
No reason for humanity to be forgiven.
No need for Yahweh to sacrifice his son (himself) in order to forgive humanity.


Please reconcile for me...

Evolution has never been observed anywhere at anytime, period. Besides how does man's manipulation of anything in a lab evolution.

GC

You are painfully wrong.

Why do you keep saying this?

Do you not know how genetics works? Seriously. Look it up.

When you can explain to me how endogenous retroviruses are fixed into germ lines, and what that means, then you can tell me why it's not (by itself!) absolute proof of evolution. After that we can get to the dozens of other independent lines of proof of evolution.

Pro Tip: Plugging your ears and covering your eyes and shouting "la la la la la!" is not the same thing as disproving evolution.

---

(September 22, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: Evolution has never been observed anywhere at anytime, period. Besides how does man's manipulation of anything in a lab evolution.

GC

I just wanted to re-post this "for the record", since it's the clearest possible proof I could offer that you have no idea what evolution is, what it does, or what the evidence to verify it is, even in the slightest fraction.

I mean, damn, GC.  Trying reading a book!

(September 22, 2015 at 7:46 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Why do you keep saying this?

Do you not know how genetics works? Seriously. Look it up.

When you can explain to me how endogenous retroviruses are fixed into germ lines, and what that means, then you can tell me why it's not (by itself!) absolute proof of evolution. After that we can get to the dozens of other independent lines of proof of evolution.

Pro Tip: Plugging your ears and covering your eyes and shouting "la la la la la!" is not the same thing as disproving evolution.

---

(September 22, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: Evolution has never been observed anywhere at anytime, period. Besides how does man's manipulation of anything in a lab evolution.

GC

I just wanted to re-post this "for the record", since it's the clearest possible proof I could offer that you have no idea what evolution is, what it does, or what the evidence to verify it is, even in the slightest fraction.

I mean, damn, GC.  Trying reading a book!

 I understand you want to call adaptable change within a species, evolution, it's only adaptation. You have and never will see one species change into another. Your right I'm not a scientist, why I surrounded myself with them to learn. I do read books in areas that interest me, I've enjoyed five Charles Dickens novels this year and probably will read another by the end of the year. Until you observe one species change to another you will have never seen evolution.

GC

(September 22, 2015 at 10:27 pm)Godschild Wrote:  I understand you want to call adaptable change within a species, evolution, it's only adaptation. You have and never will see one species change into another. Your right I'm not a scientist, why I surrounded myself with them to learn. I do read books in areas that interest me, I've enjoyed five Charles Dickens novels this year and probably will read another by the end of the year. Until you observe one species change to another you will have never seen evolution.

GC

That's how I know you don't understand what evolution is.

If I did see  one species change into another, it would defy everything we know about genetic inheritance.

You don't even know enough about it to ask the right questions, man!

(P.S. - Dickens is awesome.)

GC won't be convinced until someone shows him a crocoduck.

Addendum to Add: I wasn't being a jerk, by saying Christian evolutionary biologists. I'm not just trying to get a rise out of you. Literally half of the evolutionary biologists on the planet are Christians, more (slightly) than any other group, and only slightly less than the next major group (us). And my Beloved is one of them. As was my boss, three of my nine coworkers (plus a Muslim and a Hindu). And yet the concencus about evolution, how it works, and that it happened, are effectively universal, whether we're devout or not.

The only people who profess to have a problem with it are those who think it's anti-God. But it's not! It just doesn't care about that part of the question. That's why I recommend The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Reasons for Belief by Dr. Francis S. Collins. Not only is he one of the top ten geneticists on earth and has been a science adviser to the last two Presidents, he is also an evangelical Christain. Yet he explains better than I could, here, why evolution really happened. We really are cousins of the chimps, and that's okay. He calls DNA the "language of God" because we can, through understanding it, read the "fingerprints of the Creator". He also says that if we find something in nature, we shouldn't reject it because of preformed ideas about God. If God is the Creator, then what we find in nature is the work of the Creator, no matter what our human presuppositions were! Every scientific discovery he makes, he wrote, makes him feel as if he has seen a brief glimpse of the face of God. I've heard similar sentiments from coworkers and my Beloved on the subject.

Please take a while to carefully consider why you consider evolution such a threat to your worldview that you'd rather attack me as "proud" for saying I used to be a scientist.

All I know is you can breed dogs for years without a bitch giving birth to a cat.