(October 3, 2015 at 9:57 am)robvalue Wrote: I'd say guns do have some part to play in suicides. If I had a gun, it's way more likely I'd put it to my head and pull the trigger than slice my wrists or jump off a cliff. Suicide isn't easy, and providing an instant kill machine means people are more likely to do something they would have regretted.

Seriously, when I had my freak out in the hospital, if I'd have had a gun, I may well have blown my head off. Having no easy way to hand to hurt myself, I came back to my senses.

I'm all for allowing people the right to suicide, but not for making it this easy to pull off in a moment of madness.

Yes, I'd say the suicides by gun definitely have to be counted when we're talking about the effect guns have on a society. Suicide is tough to do, but guns make it seem so easy. There was a point in my life that I felt the only reason I hadn't offed myself was that I didn't have easy access to a gun. When I found my parents actually had one stashed in their basement, I kind of freaked out on them. They said they were pretty sure it didn't work, though.

I am so glad guns aren't legal here in the UK, I've been suicidal in the past and attempted it, glad I didn't have a gun.

(October 3, 2015 at 12:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The notion that anyone who wishes to do so can buy a firearm is baffling to me (I'm told that's basically how it is in the US.  Apos in advance if I got it wrong).

Boru

It's not quite like that. There are a few restrictions. Some of it varies from state to state, but you can't own one if you've been convicted of a felony nor if you've been hospitalized for mental health problems recently. One big problem is that our background checks are horrible, and any attempt to fix them or expand them is met cries of constitutional rights infringements from the gun lobbyists. The other big problem is that are streets are saturated with both legal and illegal guns. So, any attempt to to regulate the legal guns will end up being ineffective on its own, because the criminals can just go get one illegally quite easily.

Our love of big business is biting us in the ass as much as our love of guns with this problem, because our gun manufacturers work in overdrive and are apathetic to the illegal gun markets.

(October 3, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(October 3, 2015 at 10:26 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Indeed suicide by gun is certain and painless, hanging is a very painful death and not guaranteed to work. This is true for many suicide methods, wrist slashing taking pills etc. Guns are quick and effective, the very ease  would be sure to bump up the suicide rate. There are times when if I'd had access to a gun I'm sure I'd have used it.

There were stats out a while back that gun suicides were successful 85% of the time as opposed to 3% for drug overdoses.

Who are the 15% who miss?

(October 4, 2015 at 4:33 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(October 3, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote: There were stats out a while back that gun suicides were successful 85% of the time as opposed to 3% for drug overdoses.

Who are the 15% who miss?

One of my daughters is an ER nurse. They recently had a veteran who suffered from PTSD and had tried to kill himself with a shotgun to the head. Somehow, he survived the wound and will likely spend the rest of his life in a more or less vegetative state. It's hard to believe a self-inflicted head from a shotgun wouldn't be lethal, but it does happen. Bullets are an even more uncertain method of suicide since the slug can take weird, unpredictable paths once it's entered the body.

(October 4, 2015 at 9:19 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(October 4, 2015 at 4:33 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Who are the 15% who miss?

One of my daughters is an ER nurse. They recently had a veteran who suffered from PTSD and had tried to kill himself with a shotgun to the head. Somehow, he survived the wound and will likely spend the rest of his life in a more or less vegetative state. It's hard to believe a self-inflicted head from a shotgun wouldn't be lethal, but it does happen. Bullets are an even more uncertain method of suicide since the slug can take weird, unpredictable paths once it's entered the body.

Always thought a shotgun to the head would be enough!

Two boys attempted suicide by shotgun to the head while listening to Judas Priest. One of the boys survived for three years afterwards. His face was a complete mess. This led to a court case accusing Judas Priest of putting in subliminal messages which was later thrown out.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/judas-priest-suicide/

(October 4, 2015 at 9:43 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(October 4, 2015 at 9:19 am)Crossless1 Wrote: One of my daughters is an ER nurse. They recently had a veteran who suffered from PTSD and had tried to kill himself with a shotgun to the head. Somehow, he survived the wound and will likely spend the rest of his life in a more or less vegetative state. It's hard to believe a self-inflicted head from a shotgun wouldn't be lethal, but it does happen. Bullets are an even more uncertain method of suicide since the slug can take weird, unpredictable paths once it's entered the body.

Always thought a shotgun to the head would be enough!

When I was in EMT training, to demonstrate an avulsive wound, they showed us video of a guy who'd attempted suicide by shotgun under the chin. It blew his mouth and nose off, and split his face open to the forehead, but he was conscious the whole time, trying to talk ... you could see the blood bubbling in his throat as his eyes wandered from one rescue person to the next.

(October 4, 2015 at 1:45 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: When I was in EMT training, to demonstrate an avulsive wound, they showed us video of a guy who'd attempted suicide by shotgun under the chin. It blew his mouth and nose off, and split his face open to the forehead, but he was conscious the whole time, trying to talk ... you could see the blood bubbling in his throat as his eyes wandered from one rescue person to the next.

Well there's an image I won't soon forget...

(October 4, 2015 at 1:45 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(October 4, 2015 at 9:43 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Always thought a shotgun to the head would be enough!

When I was in EMT training, to demonstrate an avulsive wound, they showed us video of a guy who'd attempted suicide by shotgun under the chin. It blew his mouth and nose off, and split his face open to the forehead, but he was conscious the whole time, trying to talk ... you could see the blood bubbling in his throat as his eyes wandered from one rescue person to the next.

Damn!