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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 8:31 am
(October 4, 2015 at 6:03 am)lkingpinl Wrote: It really boils down to this. Judge a system/philosophy by what is claimed and believed instead of the abuses purported against others in the name of said philosophy/system. Those abuses are the actions of the individual alone and not the system.
Anyone can take a philosophy or system and choose to interpret it in such a way to cause harm against others. We've seen it in history and still today.
Or just listen to what is said by any candidate for any position whatsoever about his opposition.
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 11:25 am
I'd like to go back to principle of charity brought up earlier. From the way it is described, it sounds like putting the burden of proof on the listener. If we are to automatically ascribe credulity to every speaker, we will believe what we hear until we hear something else and finally be driven batty by trying to believe everything.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 11:26 am
Gee I don't think so. It just means being less flippant or dismissive, two traits I never appreciate in others. Ask more, assume less.
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 12:14 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 11:26 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: Gee I don't think so. It just means being less flippant or dismissive, two traits I never appreciate in others. Ask more, assume less. It could be interpreted that way. Thanks for the alternate perspective.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 1:33 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 12:03 am)Alex K Wrote: I honestly still don't know what the phrase means.
In practice, it often means that someone else is interpreting something differently from the speaker, and the speaker objects to that and calls it "abuse."
However, EvidenceVersusFaith gives an interesting case about Epicurus. I am not sure that I would call that an "abuse" of a philosophy so much as a total misrepresentation of it. It is ironic that being an epicurean (in the modern sense of the word in English) means almost the opposite of being an Epicurean (follower of Epicurus). That is because the Christians (and some others) did not like his idea that pleasure was the good and pain was bad, and so they gave a version of that that otherwise bears no resemblance with what he advocated.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 1:38 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 6:03 am)lkingpinl Wrote: It really boils down to this. Judge a system/philosophy by what is claimed and believed instead of the abuses purported against others in the name of said philosophy/system. Those abuses are the actions of the individual alone and not the system.
Anyone can take a philosophy or system and choose to interpret it in such a way to cause harm against others. We've seen it in history and still today.
I do not think that is a satisfactory explanation at all. Many times, the actual consequences of some position do not work as the advocator of it claims. The "trickle down" theory of economics is an example of this. The real world does not fit the theory at all. It just makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer, despite the nonsensical claim that it means prosperity for all.
Also, there are some people who are against "big government" who imagine that fewer laws mean greater freedom for people, but that is a simplistic and frankly wrong view of things, as it means that rich people are freer to stomp on poor people, so poor people can end up with much less actual freedom.
Pointing out those facts is not an abuse of those positions. It is that those positions falsely describe the way the world works.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 3:25 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 6:03 am)lkingpinl Wrote: It really boils down to this. Judge a system/philosophy by what is claimed and believed instead of the abuses purported against others in the name of said philosophy/system. Those abuses are the actions of the individual alone and not the system.
Anyone can take a philosophy or system and choose to interpret it in such a way to cause harm against others. We've seen it in history and still today.
^Yes.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 4:08 pm
I completely agree.
Which ideologies or beliefs that we think are misrepresented and which ones are represented correctly is another matter.
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 5:11 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2015 at 5:13 pm by Alex K.)
Ok, I do understand "don't judge a philosophy based on misrepresentations" - but that seems a bit trivial.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Never judge a philosophy by its abuse
October 4, 2015 at 5:46 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2015 at 5:48 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
That's all I took it to mean *shrugs*
Hey, I'm a trivial guy.
Ever noticed how most human beings weren't born as bunny rabbits?
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