Lemme just drop this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

(October 8, 2015 at 4:04 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm)Drich Wrote: If you were truly honest with yourself you could apply Each and every one of these thing to why people don't believe as well.

An excellent point.

That's almost the perfect definition of Skepticism as a way of thinking. We do apply those to ourselves, as a constant error-checking method. To us, it is a compliment  to point out an error in thinking, or a mistake of fact, to a fellow atheist.

It's a little shocking to us, then, when we do the same as we do for one another to a fundamentalist who comes here, and they react to our information with hostility or silence, pretending we did not demonstrate what we did.

It's the source of the term "intellectual honesty", being willing to recognize when our intellects can fool us, and make the necessary corrections. We are just as capable of those errors as anyone; the difference is in how we prefer to apply the recognition of such errors in revision of our beliefs the moment it becomes clear that we have swallowed something based upon fallacious reasoning or bias.

Dogma is the precise opposite of that.

I would've just called him an idiot. Congratulations on being the better atheist. 

(October 8, 2015 at 4:04 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm)Drich Wrote: If you were truly honest with yourself you could apply Each and every one of these thing to why people don't believe as well.

An excellent point.

That's almost the perfect definition of Skepticism as a way of thinking. We do apply those to ourselves, as a constant error-checking method. To us, it is a compliment  to point out an error in thinking, or a mistake of fact, to a fellow atheist.

It's a little shocking to us, then, when we do the same as we do for one another to a fundamentalist who comes here, and they react to our information with hostility or silence, pretending we did not demonstrate what we did.

It's the source of the term "intellectual honesty", being willing to recognize when our intellects can fool us, and make the necessary corrections. We are just as capable of those errors as anyone; the difference is in how we prefer to apply the recognition of such errors in revision of our beliefs the moment it becomes clear that we have swallowed something based upon fallacious reasoning or bias.

Dogma is the precise opposite of that.

Number 4 is hard at work...

Belief in evolution can involve 1 - 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 19.

(October 9, 2015 at 1:30 pm)Drich Wrote:

(October 9, 2015 at 12:51 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Conservatism and placebo effect.
*claps hands* Go.

Blind spot Bias, and over confidence
Your turn

Not sure it is my turn. You did nothing to explain how those tie into a non-faith position.

(October 9, 2015 at 2:12 pm)alpha male Wrote: Belief in evolution can involve 1 - 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 19.

Are you fucking serious?!

Evolution is the entire basis of about a dozen fields in biology, and the biological sciences in general.

It is one of the best-understood and most-tested/confirmed theories in all  of science, including gravity.

You need to pause and do a serious check of your motivations.

I'll put it to you this way: approximately half of working biological scientists are Christians. All of them accept evolution as the fundamental basis of what we know about life on this planet.

The organizations that claim "lots of scientists don't believe in evolution" are lying.

And I can prove it:

It's quite simple why most people believe.

From a young age people they trust tell them if they don't, they'll burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. It's indoctrinated in them, and they are told if they disagree with what the bible says that they'll go to this lake of fire. Some people are able to see past it, and say "That's ridiculous". On the other hand they're told that if they follow this book, they'll get to see their loved ones in heaven again some day. And who wouldn't like that? Especially after a loved one has died. It's a comforting thought. Coupled together, it makes it hard for anyone who is raised that way to stop believing.

Take away hell, take away heaven, and I wonder how many people would be Christians.

(October 9, 2015 at 8:04 pm)Cecelia Wrote: It's quite simple why most people believe.

From a young age people they trust tell them if they don't, they'll burn in a lake of fire for all eternity.  It's indoctrinated in them, and they are told if they disagree with what the bible says that they'll go to this lake of fire.  Some people are able to see past it, and say "That's ridiculous".  On the other hand they're told that if they follow this book, they'll get to see their loved ones in heaven again some day.  And who wouldn't like that?  Especially after a loved one has died.  It's a comforting thought.  Coupled together, it makes it hard for anyone who is raised that way to stop believing.  

Take away hell, take away heaven, and I wonder how many people would be Christians.

I've said something similar to that, myself, Cecelia, when arguing with Theists.

Christianity wouldn't be nearly so popular if the Bible told Christians that they should worship God simply because He is God and deserves worship;

that they will burn in hell anyway, and should be glad of it
...that is, if they really loved god and really wanted to atone for their sins.

They only really do it to save their own bacon, which, forgive me, is a pretty tawdry purpose.

A true god wouldn't need to bribe...or threaten...people into allegiance.

Religion claims to be the TRUTH,
all the while promising to give people all the things they want:

Unconditional love
Limitless forgiveness (great for guys sitting on Death Row)
Immortality
Answers to the fundamental questions of life
An explanation of why bad things happen
Justice
An Ego Boost (for the holier-than-thou)

But the last time I checked, the TRUTH hurts.

I allow for the possibility of a God (not a likelihood, just a possibility);

but I don't allow at all for any kind of likelihood that if there IS a God,
that he has ANYTHING to do with any of the world religions.

If there IS a God, I could see him as being more of an impartial Scientist or Architect, if anything at all;
the Deist concept of God.

I think that the painful TRUTH might be that there is a god,
but he doesn't interfere or give a shit.

That he is eternal...but we are not.

Why more religious people are not more skeptical of a Religion that panders to all their human insecurities, I don't know.

MTL:  

"They only really do it to save their own bacon, which, forgive me, is a pretty tawdry purpose.

A true god wouldn't need to bribe...or threaten...people into allegiance."

Yes.  And what Cecelia said in the post before.

Oh how many times I have had a friend say: "But what if there IS a hell?  How can you risk it?"  Which means "I'll keep going to church just in case."
And yet, they say they believe in a God who knows their thoughts.   There is a huge disconnect there.  Even we don't respect someone who is being
fake to save their own ass.  A God who created hell . . . is going to give that a pass?  (Ooh, I should go write another limerick.)  I don't think so.

(October 8, 2015 at 12:04 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Summed up in this chart.  Every single point applies.  

Cool story bro.

(October 10, 2015 at 8:00 am)Randys brother Wrote: Cool story bro.

How nice it must be to be able to simply ignore all understanding with a wave of the hand.

"I don't like what we know about _______, so I'm just going to pretend it's not real."

I can't imagine not feeling deep and inescapable shame if I had to ignore some known fact in order to maintain an ideology.

Maybe that's why they're so caught up with self-guilt-tripping, humiliation, and vicarious atonement?