(October 20, 2015 at 11:50 am)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 7:21 am)ignoramus Wrote: Agree with you guys ... If they truly believed in the bible and all the afterlife shit, then it should be the most important thing in the world to them!
But instead, 80% of the jails are full of Christians ... go figure... The problem is they cherry pick scripture like a true Christian and all is forgiven...

i am going to post a thread about this on christian forums website i wonder what they will say about it there im just going to very politely ask where it comes from since it did not come from jesus and address the main points and verses in my OP over there

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(October 20, 2015 at 11:39 am)alpha male Wrote: Or maybe you should post it at a Christian forum.    It's pretty pathetic be condesending to Christians for not addressing a point you made on an atheist forum.

But anyway, here's a place to start:

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

yes i am going to start a thread on christian forums although there are christians here .....  yes jesus did have a relationship with God and was inspired by God but does distinguish that he was not God despite knowing God and despite Gods inspiration being in his mind "The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."

Rather, Jesus distinguished that he was not the Father. The passage above is a clear claim to equality with the Father. As the Son, Jesus humbled Himself in His earthly ministry.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:44 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: The Jews would like a word with you about their prophetic tradition.

I've debated a Jewish counter-missionary before. He basically said that Christian translations were faulty, and supplied his own. So, I went and bought a Jewish source Tanakh, and showed that the Christian translations were acceptable. He then left.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:49 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 12:44 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: The Jews would like a word with you about their prophetic tradition.

I've debated a Jewish counter-missionary before. He basically said that Christian translations were faulty, and supplied his own. So, I went and bought a Jewish source Tanakh, and showed that the Christian translations were acceptable. He then left.

*shrug*

The point is that they don't buy the Christian spin and haven't for twenty-odd centuries. Why you think that quoting prophesies stolen from the Jews will impress atheists escapes me.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: *shrug*

The point is that they don't buy the Christian spin and haven't for twenty-odd centuries. Why you think that quoting prophesies stolen from the Jews will impress atheists escapes me.

I don't think it will impress atheists. I think it should impress atheists, if they are able to read and have an open mind.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:58 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: *shrug*

The point is that they don't buy the Christian spin and haven't for twenty-odd centuries. Why you think that quoting prophesies stolen from the Jews will impress atheists escapes me.

I don't think it will impress atheists. I think it should impress atheists, if they are able to read and have an open mind.

Your well poisoning skills haven't diminished, I see. So we're close-minded and have poor reading skills if we don't accept the Christian spin.

Yeah, sorry, not buying it.

You're close-minded because you didn't even address the actual content of the passages.

(October 20, 2015 at 1:07 pm)alpha male Wrote: You're close-minded because you didn't even address the actual content of the passages.

I'm open minded enough to know that it isn't hard to retrofit the "facts" to match the alleged prophesies. Matthew was very good at that sort of thing. I'm not impressed. So?

(October 19, 2015 at 3:58 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: How do you come to that conclusion when obviously his audience reached such a different conclusion as to start throwing stones?

his jewish audience before him assumed that he was saying that he was I AM and they did not have the 20 20 benefit of hindsight all they knew was what he was saying right then and judging him on the things he was saying right then [...]

They obviously knew of Abraham, and presumably Moses as well. Do you mean to say that they didn't have the hindsight to interpret what Jesus was saying in light of Exodus? They were, after all, in a temple.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:47 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:50 am)jenny1972 Wrote: i am going to post a thread about this on christian forums website i wonder what they will say about it there im just going to very politely ask where it comes from since it did not come from jesus and address the main points and verses in my OP over there

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yes i am going to start a thread on christian forums although there are christians here .....  yes jesus did have a relationship with God and was inspired by God but does distinguish that he was not God despite knowing God and despite Gods inspiration being in his mind "The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."

Rather, Jesus distinguished that he was not the Father. The passage above is a clear claim to equality with the Father. As the Son, Jesus humbled Himself in His earthly ministry.

God is the "father" of us all thats why in the Lords prayer it is said " OUR father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name ... "

John 20:16-18 :
16 Jesus saith unto her,Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

(October 20, 2015 at 1:09 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 1:07 pm)alpha male Wrote: You're close-minded because you didn't even address the actual content of the passages.

I'm open minded enough to know that it isn't hard to retrofit the "facts" to match the alleged prophesies. Matthew was very good at that sort of thing. I'm not impressed. So?

So, if you agree that the OT shows the messiah as God, and you agree that the NT has Jesus claiming to be the messiah, then you disagree with the claim that "even the Bible says that Jesus was not God."