Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:50 am
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 11:53 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 29, 2015 at 11:40 am)jenny1972 Wrote: yes im suggesting that maybe human intelligence isnt the apex creative intelligence in the universe based on science that is highly unlikely
No, you're suggesting that this universe is designed. C'mon......you need to maintain a coherent string of responses for this to be a rational discussion. We may not be that apex, but that doesn;t imply, suggest, or establish that the universe is designed. Lets say, for purpose of argument....that there were 4billion other "better" creative species out there, and none of them designed the universe.
Do you see how one statement can be true....that we are not the creative apex, without the other statement being true - none of our betters are the "creator race"?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 19789
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:52 am
(October 28, 2015 at 6:58 am)Quantum Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 6:52 am)ignoramus Wrote: What about the poor hippo things that thought they'd go for a swim in the deep ocean till they remembered that they haven't developed fins yet! It wasn't pretty.
No it wasn't. And we're not even talking all the octopuses who accidentally tied knots in their legs!
And I bet you can't explain why modern octopuses don't. 
Posts: 738
Threads: 9
Joined: October 11, 2015
Reputation:
9
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:52 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:29 am)Esquilax Wrote: (October 29, 2015 at 11:26 am)jenny1972 Wrote: what would account for different species of living things then ? why monkeys and humans and plants and worms and birds under this theory why wouldnt every living thing existing on the same earth under the same conditions be exactly the same and have the same properties ?
Well, A: because they didn't all live under the same conditions, since there's a huge amount of environmental variance on the earth, and B: unguided mutations are the mechanism behind evolution, and no two beings will ever mutate exactly the same way. It's the sort of question that's really simple to answer if you had any interest in the subject beyond disagreeing with it out of hand.
so your suggesting that humans evolved into humans and plants evolved into plants because of climate differences in different locations .... bugs are different than other species of bugs all because they have intensely different environmental factors ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
Posts: 15351
Threads: 118
Joined: January 13, 2014
Reputation:
117
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:54 am
God as a placeholder.
It's just lazy and intellectually dishonest, pool.
If we don't know something, the answer is then that we don't know. We cannot take a guess based on literally no evidence and then claim that this guess is just as good as anything else.
Your brain is good at seeing patterns and ascribing meaning to them. So yes, you see what small slice of the cosmos you can see, and you make an ad hoc explanation for it in your brain. Try harder to be okay with the admission of "I don't know."
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Posts: 3101
Threads: 10
Joined: September 7, 2015
Reputation:
49
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:55 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:52 am)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 29, 2015 at 11:29 am)Esquilax Wrote: Well, A: because they didn't all live under the same conditions, since there's a huge amount of environmental variance on the earth, and B: unguided mutations are the mechanism behind evolution, and no two beings will ever mutate exactly the same way. It's the sort of question that's really simple to answer if you had any interest in the subject beyond disagreeing with it out of hand.
so your suggesting that humans evolved into humans and plants evolved into plants because of climate differences in different locations .... bugs are different than other species of bugs all because they have intensely different environmental factors ?
Yes. And random mutation in non-genetically-sharing populations results in different directions of potential evolution, narrowed back down by the Natural Selection pressures in their different environments.
The fact that the species "work together" (though I'd say that bees getting their colony destroyed by wasps would differ in this opinion) is a result of Natural Selection working on all of the populations put together to form part of that environment; environment is geography + ecology.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:55 am
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 11:57 am by The Grand Nudger.)
They are different species because significant genetic variation has occurred so as to make reproduction between groups impossible. This doesn't -have- to have anything to due with differing environments, but it often does (as, for example, the criteria which manifest itself as genetic variation between two populations).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:55 am
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 11:59 am by robvalue.)
I'm not saying you're wrong Pool, I'm saying your conclusion is unsupported.
I highly recommend people get a book on evolution. Expecting to go from no understanding to working knowledge in a couple of forum posts is like trying to eat eight million cream crackers in five minutes.
The question is who wants to learn, and who wants to dismiss?
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:56 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:52 am)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 29, 2015 at 11:29 am)Esquilax Wrote: Well, A: because they didn't all live under the same conditions, since there's a huge amount of environmental variance on the earth, and B: unguided mutations are the mechanism behind evolution, and no two beings will ever mutate exactly the same way. It's the sort of question that's really simple to answer if you had any interest in the subject beyond disagreeing with it out of hand.
so your suggesting that humans evolved into humans and plants evolved into plants because of climate differences in different locations .... bugs are different than other species of bugs all because they have intensely different environmental factors ?
Crazy thought: when I provide an explanation that has both an A and a B component, maybe don't respond like the only thing I said was A?
And a misrepresentation of A, too! Climate differences? Do you really think the only difference in environment over the entirety of the earth is the temperature? No terrain differences? Or chemical? Weather? Moisture? Other species? Food sources? Geology? Sunlight? Wind? Water availability and composition? Plant life?
Just climate differences? Seriously?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Posts: 15351
Threads: 118
Joined: January 13, 2014
Reputation:
117
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 11:57 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:52 am)jenny1972 Wrote: so your suggesting that humans evolved into humans and plants evolved into plants because of climate differences in different locations .... bugs are different than other species of bugs all because they have intensely different environmental factors ?
Not necessarily because of intensely different environmental factors. Different animals can carve out niches in the same environment. Beetles eat dung and thrive on that, while termites eat wood/grass and thrive on that---all in the same environment.
Genetic mutations sometimes are deleterious, and sometimes proffer an advantage in an environment to a specific organism. If the frequency of alleles in a population shifts enough, then that mutation will take foot.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:00 pm
(October 29, 2015 at 11:47 am)pool Wrote: But I'm right though aren't I? 
Not without evidence you're not.
Quote:It's impossible to determine how this universal law of the universe came into being. To assume that it was created(sorry,designed) by something or someone would be the most logical thing to do 
How is it logical to make assumptions based on no evidence, about phenomena that we can't even establish is possible, when all of the available evidence points in the other direction? Hell, why make assumptions at all? If you don't have evidence, the answer is "I don't know," not "I'm going to assume it's whatever I want."
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
|
