Yeah, but you can take comfort in the fact those years you may be shaving off aren't the good ones. If eating bacon keeps me from being 90 in a geriatric home, shitting myself uncontrollably, I'll have some seconds.

Besides, for some of us, eating bacon is the least of our worries when it comes to hastening our demise.

(October 29, 2015 at 4:30 pm)Rhythm Wrote: OTOH, no sense in bringing that day closer by gorging ourselves on bacon, lol.  

I know this is tongue in cheek but it's still a point people like to seriously bring up.

And it misses completely what the actual point is.

Nobody endorses getting super fat and living an unhealthy lifestyle. But at the same time, living one that is completely centred on being as healthy as physically possible, can be for many people, fruitless. 

That's the point here when some cunt like me says "it won't stop me from eating bacon". It's not because I don't give a shit about my health or that I'm recklessly going to go out of my way to jeopardise it. It's actually more to do with the fact that being overly concerned can be just as detrimental in terms of enjoyment and satisfaction, on a broader sense of what constitutes a 'good life'. 

I get the sense with these things that so many people who like to brag that they know it all, including these organisations like WHO, often promote a message of "all or nothing", and have no concept or understanding of moderation. It's like as soon as something is deemed to be bad for your health, it's just blanket "don't eat, touch or consume it regardless". 


Stoopid way of living your life if you ask me.

I know right?  I've got to find a way to get all that damned vegan sugar out of my diet, for starters. 

Statistically, most of those at WHO eat bacon anyway.
I think it's a case of do as I say, not as I do.

(October 28, 2015 at 4:46 pm)Aractus Wrote: They are not held in "appalling conditions" in a first world country such as Australia. The very suggestion is not only completely ignorant, but deeply offensive to many people. Breaches of animal welfare are treated very seriously.

WOW! Maybe in your alternative universe world but here animals are caged all their life in super farms where the idea is to have as much animals on less area of ground. Just last year Chris Christie vetoed pig crate ban and that is just tip of the iceberg how horribly animals are mistreated. Or chickens that are bread with such large breasts that they can't even walk because of the weight and lots of them drop dead before they get slaughtered. In fact animals are kept in such appalling conditions sometimes are sources of cow madness, swine flu, E. Coli and many more.

Really I'm not pulling those things out of my ass, but rather from reality, like for instance, this documentary which shows how animal farming conditions are worse every day and animals change, they're not even same as they were couple of decades ago, let alone stone age.

(October 28, 2015 at 4:46 pm)Aractus Wrote: Nutrients found only in meat include B12, Vitamin D

Again maybe in your alternative universe but we here make our own vitamin D in our bodies when the skin is exposed to the Sun and also I said I was vegetarian I don't take soy proteins but whey proteins and get B12 from milk and cheese.

Vitamin A is most aboundand in potatoes, carrots, kale... and not meat. Similar with calcium that is also present in many vegetables, fruits.

And additional problem is that people eat meat every day for every meal, they don't even know how to eat other food.

(October 28, 2015 at 4:46 pm)Aractus Wrote: The majority of the world's plant species are either poisonous to us, or inedible. While there are plenty of "wild" meats we have to chose from, and only a handful of domesticated species (like pig and cattle), the vast majority of plant foods we consume are artificially-selected and domesticated. This includes: Wheat, Maize, Rice, Banana, Tomato, Cornflour, Broccoli, Orange, Apple, Pear, Lemon, Figs, etc. It includes the vast majority of plant foods. If your argument is that you want to avoid domesticated foods then you have far more plant foods you'll need to avoid compared to animal foods.

I don't want to avoid domesticated foods, only avoid eating domesticated animals. WHO also says that people who eat meat eat 2 to 3 times more sugar and fat then their body needs.

How does cancer happens by meat?
Meat is devoid of fiber and other nutrients that have a protective effect. Meat also contains animal protein, saturated fat, and, in some cases, carcinogenic compounds such as heterocyclic amines (HCA) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) formed during the processing or cooking of meat. HCAs, formed as meat is cooked at high temperatures, and PAHs, formed during the burning of organic substances, are believed to increase cancer risk. In addition, the high fat content of meat and other animal products increases hormone production, thus increasing the risk of hormone-related cancers such as breast and prostate cancer.

And for the end watch this documentary on pig farming that is so appalling causing danger and death not only for those that eat them, but those that work on those shameful farms and live many miles around it. - Really educate yourself people.

I'm vegan and I take supplements to make sure I get what I need. I went to Vegfest, a huge vegan festival in London, not long ago. Wow, it was so popular! There was actually so many people by the time we left that it got uncomfortable. It's a growing market.

It was heavenly... I had a hot dog for breakfast, pizza for lunch, chocolate, cheese, cakes, everything... Substitute food is getting so amazing.

One thing I noticed: not one single overweight person in the whole place that I saw. Neither were they dying of malnutrition. Everyone was healthy and happy.

Personal rant about morality and animals:

Are we going to go into the silly debate about whether morality has a universal applicability beyond that which initially prompted their adaptation?

(October 30, 2015 at 7:20 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: WOW! Maybe in your alternative universe world but here animals are caged all their life in super farms where the idea is to have as much animals on less area of ground. Just last year Chris Christie vetoed pig crate ban and that is just tip of the iceberg how horribly animals are mistreated. Or chickens that are bread with such large breasts that they can't even walk because of the weight and lots of them drop dead before they get slaughtered. In fact animals are kept in such appalling conditions sometimes are sources of cow madness, swine flu, E. Coli and many more.

Really I'm not pulling those things out of my ass, but rather from reality, like for instance, this documentary which shows how animal farming conditions are worse every day and animals change, they're not even same as they were couple of decades ago, let alone stone age.

So what you're saying is you're an expert?

Sow stalls, which is what I assume you're talking about, are not a "cruel" condition. It would be cruel if you did that to a human, it would be cruel for certain other animals, but pigs have unique needs, and unique characteristics. But if their use really concerns you then just buy free-range pork.

(October 30, 2015 at 7:20 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Again maybe in your alternative universe but we here make our own vitamin D in our bodies when the skin is exposed to the Sun and also I said I was vegetarian I don't take soy proteins but whey proteins and get B12 from milk and cheese.

Dairy on its own does not provide enough B12 for average people. We do not manufacture enough Vitamin D to be reliant solely on the integumentary system. Especially dark skinned people face the issue that for many of them it is impossible to get enough Vitamin D solely through the integumentary system manufacturing it. Wearing sunblock of strength (from memory) or make-up, or clothes that provide SPF6+ or greater UV protection prevents the integumentary system from being triggered to manufacture Vitamin D. The main risk factors of Vitamin D defiency are: 1. Not getting enough direct sunlight exposure, 2. Having dark skin, 3. Having a poor diet. In an average diet, dietary sources provide 20% of a person's Vitamin D intake. The only natural dietary source providing Vitamin D in a significant quantity is fatty fish and eggs, however you'd need to eat five eggs a day to reach the AI for Vitamin D.

(October 30, 2015 at 7:20 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Vitamin A is most aboundand in potatoes, carrots, kale... and not meat. Similar with calcium that is also present in many vegetables, fruits.

And additional problem is that people eat meat every day for every meal, they don't even know how to eat other food.

It's not the amount that's in the food that's important, it's the absorbability/"bioavailability" of the nutrient. You need to eat more than five times the amount of calcium in spinach, for example, than for milk. Milk contains 125mg of calcium per 100g, roughly, spinach has 99mg per 100g. So a 200ml glass of milk, for example, contains 250mg of calcium of which you will absorb (on average) 69mg of calcium. You'd need to eat 1.36kg of spinach to absorb the same amount of calcium (69mg).

That's just an example with calcium. It's not just calcium - every micro-nutrient that is found in meat and also in plants is absorbed in lower amounts in plants.

(October 30, 2015 at 7:20 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: I don't want to avoid domesticated foods, only avoid eating domesticated animals. WHO also says that people who eat meat eat 2 to 3 times more sugar and fat then their body needs.

How does cancer happens by meat?
Meat is devoid of fiber and other nutrients that have a protective effect. Meat also contains animal protein, saturated fat, and, in some cases, carcinogenic compounds such as heterocyclic amines (HCA) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) formed during the processing or cooking of meat. HCAs, formed as meat is cooked at high temperatures, and PAHs, formed during the burning of organic substances, are believed to increase cancer risk. In addition, the high fat content of meat and other animal products increases hormone production, thus increasing the risk of hormone-related cancers such as breast and prostate cancer.

And for the end watch this documentary on pig farming that is so appalling causing danger and death not only for those that eat them, but those that work on those shameful farms and live many miles around it. - Really educate yourself people.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but no one has discovered yet why high intakes of red meats seems to increase the risk for colorectal cancer. Stop regurgitating bullshit you hear from the internet.

We have a dairy consumer here who's worried about the welfare of animals?  

I think he was talking about the vegan equivalent to dairy. There are those kinds of food, you know.