(November 19, 2015 at 4:01 am)miaharun Wrote: I think if everyone was Atheist, Most people will not have a base for whats right or wrong. Morality is there but applies to good natured people as far as i can see. If its in your DNA to be a bad natured person , there is no base to stop you from committing misdeeds. One can bring in law but people with no base to decide whats right or wrong will write the law. I cant imagine the outcome of such a world. Reminds me of the movie Equilibrium (2002).

Yabut, why would religion change anything?

If you're 'a bad natured person', why do you think being told to be good would change anything? How is religion different than law in this respect?

(November 19, 2015 at 4:30 am)robvalue Wrote: Vic: I agree, irrational nonsense will continue in one form or another. But the hold it has over people, and society in general, has a lot of potential for decreasing. And I feel very confident that it will, in secular nations.

It has. Look at Norway and Sweden. They may have an unhealthy obsession with Death Metal and Eurovision Pop, but other than that - they seem to be doing great, even if you don't compare them to radical theocracies, full of desperate people looking for something to blow to pieces.

(November 19, 2015 at 4:35 am)Vic Wrote:

(November 19, 2015 at 4:01 am)miaharun Wrote: I think if everyone was Atheist, Most people will not have a base for whats right or wrong. Morality is there but applies to good natured people as far as i can see. If its in your DNA to be a bad natured person , there is no base to stop you from committing misdeeds. One can bring in law but people with no base to decide whats right or wrong will write the law. I cant imagine the outcome of such a world. Reminds me of the movie Equilibrium (2002).

Yabut, why would religion change anything?

If you're 'a bad natured person', why do you think being told to be good would change anything? How is religion different than law in this respect?

My thoughts exactly. You can make an argument that (irreligious) atheists are the most moral of all, when they are good people, because they are doing so without needing any external motivating factor.

Yes, but I think religion itself is only a part of that equation, not its only compound. Politics, culture, education. They all go together and change together.

It's all connected man!

Mia: If you suddenly stopped believing in Karma and such, do you think you'd become a worse person? If so, what do you think you would do, and why?

(November 19, 2015 at 4:11 am)robvalue Wrote:

(November 19, 2015 at 4:01 am)miaharun Wrote: I think if everyone was Atheist, Most people will not have a base for whats right or wrong. Morality is there but applies to good natured people as far as i can see. If its in your DNA to be a bad natured person , there is no base to stop you from committing misdeeds. One can bring in law but people with no base to decide whats right or wrong will write the law. I cant imagine the outcome of such a world. Reminds me of the movie Equilibrium (2002).

You should come to one of the European countries where atheism is highly prevalent. Your ideas about "most people" are not supported by reality. I think you are just struggling to understand human interaction without your presuppositions about magical forces.

There is also no serious study showing that theists behave "better" than atheists, as far as I'm aware.

I thought you were an atheist anyway? Many Buddhists are.

Your correct Sir, i am an atheist. However i believe in Karma, which you would call witchcraft. That is more or less the main difference between us. I'm not at the mercy of a deity. I don't ask for benefits,guidance and forgiveness. I am responsible for what i do. The OP was if the world were only filled with atheists. What i fail to see is how does one define whats write or wrong? Example : Act of adultery can be right in front of a person who doesn't have a base of whats write or wrong.

(November 19, 2015 at 4:42 am)Vic Wrote: Yes, but I think religion itself is only a part of that equation, not its only compound. Politics, culture, education. They all go together and change together.

It's all connected man!

My sh*t and I are connected. Being anal retentive, I sometimes find it hard to let it go. But after it's done - I always find I feel better without it. 

My point is - religion is a piece of sh*t. The sooner we flush, the sooner the next person will be able to use the facilities...

Karma doesn't teach you right from wrong, it rewards or punishes certain behaviours. Whether those behaviours are actually "good" or "bad" is entirely up for debate. Morality isn't about getting rewards, it's about doing the right thing because it is the right thing. When asked to justify the rules of Karma, you use real world reasoning like everyone else. You don't just say "because Karma says so", so whether Karma says so or not is irrelevant.

We know what hurts us, so we know that if we do it to others, it hurts them. We know what makes us happy, so if we do it to others it generally makes them happy. It's not a lot more complex than that. We have evolved as cooperative, empathetic animals on the whole. That's just reality. You seem to need an extra layer of explanation on top of this, but it's superfluous.

You are suggesting what a theoretical atheist would be like, who doesn't know right from wrong, while ignoring the reality that most atheists are good moral people. We're here right now, we're not theoretical.

(November 19, 2015 at 4:35 am)Vic Wrote:

(November 19, 2015 at 4:01 am)miaharun Wrote: I think if everyone was Atheist, Most people will not have a base for whats right or wrong. Morality is there but applies to good natured people as far as i can see. If its in your DNA to be a bad natured person , there is no base to stop you from committing misdeeds. One can bring in law but people with no base to decide whats right or wrong will write the law. I cant imagine the outcome of such a world. Reminds me of the movie Equilibrium (2002).

Yabut, why would religion change anything?

If you're 'a bad natured person', why do you think being told to be good would change anything? How is religion different than law in this respect?

The main difference is that you do not have to obey rules in religion (Unless religion which brainwashes) whereas you have to obey state laws. The risk of punishment is your own choice.

No, you don't have to obey state laws. Otherwise there would be no one in jail.