The more I think about it, the more and more I lean towards gnostic atheism. I'm starting to think that holding onto agnosticism out of intellectual integrity is actually misguided and doesn't take into account the complete and utter failure of the god hypothesis over the centuries. I'm starting to think that a claim that fails so miserably to produce even one shred of evidence can, in fact, be dismissed with 100% certainty, even the mysterious deist god. With all we know about the human brain and how our existential needs fuel our beliefs, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to conclude that all gods ever postulated are but constructs of the human mind.

I'm starting to think that intellectual integrity actually prescribes that any shred of uncertainty is unwarranted.

Polls have consistently shown that there is far more agnosticism amoungst the beliefs of Atheists. Far far more. I think is despite the fact that Theists are 'certain' about their far more complex and frankly, silly religious beliefs.

I feel sorry for the theists that they should feel compelled to profess certainty. There is no reason a theist can't also avail themselves of the intellectual integrity afforded by agnosticism.

(November 25, 2015 at 12:26 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: I feel sorry for the theists that they should feel compelled to profess certainty.  There is no reason a theist can't also avail themselves of the intellectual integrity afforded by agnosticism.

The same could be said for some who hold the atheist perspective.  Gnostic atheism is just as logically indefensible as gnostic theism.

(November 25, 2015 at 12:28 pm)Kingpin Wrote: The same could be said for some who hold the atheist perspective.  Gnostic atheism is just as logically indefensible as gnostic theism.

Not true. See my post at the top of the page. I listed a couple of reasons for why I'm starting to lean towards gnosticism.

Besides, what is being agnostic but saying, "I don't know this to be true, but I believe(or lack belief in) it anyway?" Is that really any more defensible than claiming to know god does not exist?

(November 25, 2015 at 11:35 am)Faith No More Wrote: The more I think about it, the more and more I lean towards gnostic atheism.  I'm starting to think that holding onto agnosticism out of intellectual integrity is actually misguiding and doesn't take into account the complete and utter failure of the god hypothesis over the centuries.  I'm starting to think that a claim that fails so miserably to produce even one shred of evidence can, in fact, be dismissed with 100% certainty, even the mysterious deist god.  With all we know about the human brain and how our existential needs fuel our beliefs, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to conclude that all gods ever postulated are but constructs of the human mind.

I'm starting to think that intellectual integrity actually prescribes that any shred of uncertainty is unwarranted.

I agree but only in regard to literalist, fundamentalist claims.  While popular those are the least compelling beliefs anyhow and easily dismissed out of hand.

But I've always thought that attaching percent estimates of certainty to god belief was wrong headed.  My agnosticism has nothing to do with relative likelihood and everything to do with interpretation.  Something ill defined isn't entitled to a shred of consideration.

(November 25, 2015 at 12:33 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: I agree but only in regard to literalist, fundamentalist claims.  While popular those are the least compelling beliefs anyhow and easily dismissed out of hand.

But I've always thought that attaching percent estimates of certainty to god belief was wrong headed.  My agnosticism has nothing to do with relative likelihood and everything to do with interpretation.  Something ill defined isn't entitled to a shred of consideration.

But if something is not entitled to a shred of consideration, is that not dismissing it 100%?  Sounds like gnosticism to me...

(November 25, 2015 at 12:32 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(November 25, 2015 at 12:28 pm)Kingpin Wrote: The same could be said for some who hold the atheist perspective.  Gnostic atheism is just as logically indefensible as gnostic theism.

Not true.  See my post at the top of the page.  I listed a couple of reasons for why I'm starting to lean towards gnosticism.

Besides, what is being agnostic but saying, "I don't know this to be true, but I believe(or lack belief in) it anyway?"  Is that really any more defensible than claiming to know god does not exist?

So if you are a Gnostic in regards to the existence of God, what is your stance on alien life?  There are thousands upon thousands of stories of encounters with God and encounters with aliens.  However, I find more believe in the plausibility of alien life then God.  It's interesting.

(November 25, 2015 at 12:36 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(November 25, 2015 at 12:33 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: I agree but only in regard to literalist, fundamentalist claims.  While popular those are the least compelling beliefs anyhow and easily dismissed out of hand.

But I've always thought that attaching percent estimates of certainty to god belief was wrong headed.  My agnosticism has nothing to do with relative likelihood and everything to do with interpretation.  Something ill defined isn't entitled to a shred of consideration.

But if something is not entitled to a shred of consideration, is that not dismissing it 100%?  Sounds like gnosticism to me...

I guess it does.  But I make no knowledge claims about the silly beliefs because they neither warrant nor permit any final judgement. Agnostic atheists aren't spending their days or nights fretting over some tiny percent of uncertainty regarding the existence of gods.  We're all getting about our lives and contemplating those things which strike us as interesting and worthwhile.

(November 25, 2015 at 12:38 pm)Kingpin Wrote: So if you are a Gnostic in regards to the existence of God, what is your stance on alien life?  There are thousands upon thousands of stories of encounters with God and encounters with aliens.  However, I find more believe in the plausibility of alien life then God.  It's interesting.

Intelligent alien life that has visited Earth? I dismiss that just as gods, ghosts and psychics. Human brains are not very good at parsing the world around us, and they're especially bad at realizing when they have misfired. Because of that, it comes as no surprise that people believe in the supernatural.

But it's all the same to me. A lack of evidence requires dismissing them.