(November 25, 2015 at 11:31 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: I don't think god belief is any where near as big an impediment to science as certainty is.  It is motivated, willful assumptions based on our personal preferences which impede discovery.  Of course god belief itself seems pretty motivated and willful, but for some at least it doesn't seem to get in the way of doing good science.  Albert Einstein, Max Planck, Erwin Schrodinger and Werner Heisenberg seem to have done okay and were allegedly religious.  But I do wonder just how these guys held their religious beliefs.

I don't see why it needs to be a problem at all? I went to a Catholic grade school. We learned science in science class lol. We learned evolution, etc. At that point in my life, I had no idea that any sort of conflict between religion and science even existed for some people. It's never been an issue for me.

(November 25, 2015 at 1:51 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:

(November 25, 2015 at 10:47 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Cancer is either entirely found in nature

Don't you believe that your god created nature?

I believe He created the concept and let nature takes its course. I believe in evolution.

(November 25, 2015 at 1:51 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:

(November 25, 2015 at 10:47 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: or it came about through the free will of people themselves

So blame the victim.

Let me be clear, that's not at all what I'm doing.

(November 25, 2015 at 3:56 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 25, 2015 at 1:51 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Don't you believe that your god created nature?

I believe He created the concept and let nature takes its course. I believe in evolution.

Ok, but if he's omniscient, then he would know in advance that creating nature would result in cancer eventually, so he's still responsible for the existence of cancer any way you slice it. If your Gaud is all-powerful and created everything with full knowledge of how it would unfold, then he is personally and solely responsible for everything that happens in the entire Universe, beginning to end. Suffering, evil, disease, death...all of it.

(November 25, 2015 at 10:43 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 25, 2015 at 1:48 am)c172 Wrote: I just see no way that god could exist. I'd be devastated to be proven wrong. I think godbelief trivializes what science proves to us to be true.

There is no scientific discovery that disproves God, in my eyes. And I believe in science. I don't see any conflict between science and my faith.

The existence of science is the result of the understanding that faith is worthless where pursuit of facts are concerned. You either pretend science doesn't work, or you acknowledge faith is a infantile, petulant, and fundamentally valueless indulgence.

I've never died.

But it seems frightfully unlikely s/he exists (who says God is a man?).

But I've never died.

(November 25, 2015 at 3:56 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I believe in evolution.

I hate that phrase so much -_-

(Nothing personal tough )

(November 25, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(November 25, 2015 at 3:56 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I believe He created the concept and let nature takes its course. I believe in evolution.

Ok, but if he's omniscient, then he would know in advance that creating nature would result in cancer eventually, so he's still responsible for the existence of cancer any way you slice it. If your Gaud is all-powerful and created everything with full knowledge of how it would unfold, then he is personally and solely responsible for everything that happens in the entire Universe, beginning to end. Suffering, evil, disease, death...all of it.

1. As far as suffering and death go, I have already explained what I believe God's thoughts are on those. It was on my post to Simon Moon. 

2. As far as God's responsibility for death and suffering goes, yes, we believe He created the world and knew ahead of time what would happen with everything. So if you want to say that He is "solely responsible" for those, I don't have a problem with it. I wouldn't word it that way and I don't think of it that way, but it's just a matter of semantics I think. 

Anyway, the belief goes that even with all the suffering we feel on earth, in the end, everything will be made right. The good that will come of it all will surpass and overcome any pain and suffering we endure in this world. We believe that God, through his omniscience, can see this and that is why He still chose to create us and this world we live in. 

And you can't forget that we believe He suffered with us too. He made Himself man and died the most painful and unjust and horrific death. The belief goes that He felt more physical pain than any other human ever will. And His Mother, not only lost her child (the absolute worst thing a person can go through), but she had to watch him suffer the worst death imaginable.    

That was God's way of saying "yes, I understand and I feel your pain and your suffering. I suffer with you. And my Mother suffers with you too. But in the end all will be made right, and the good will surpass and overcome the bad."

3. Now as far as evil being God's "responsibility" as well, that is where I object. Per our beliefs, evil is the absence of God. We believe God is love and kindness and mercy and goodness, etc etc. Evil is the absence of those things. And that happens when a being makes the conscious decision to turn away from those things. Hate and disregard for others. Vengeance. Cruelty. That's evil.  

Anyway, those are my views, and how I understand it. I hope that sheds some light.

(November 25, 2015 at 5:05 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: I've never died.

But it seems frightfully unlikely s/he exists (who says God is a man?).

But I've never died.

God does not have a gender. On that we can agree. We call Him him as a matter of practicality and symbolism.

But that's cissexist. If God is an agender pansexual non-binary espresso coffee machine complete with dual-action hydraulic processor, who identifies as "ze", you're being cis scum calling ze "he".