(November 30, 2015 at 8:45 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(November 30, 2015 at 8:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But then again, I think there is enough difference surrounding the circumstances and nature of a tumor vs that of a fetus, to make all the difference.

I don't see why in regards to the woman's right to her own body a naturally occurring tumor or a naturally occurring fetus would make a difference? The woman still has a right to decide what happens inside of her own body.

So to clarify, if a woman decides she does not want to give birth to her baby, you see nothing wrong with her having an abortion for all 9 months, all the way up until birth?

I'm assuming the answer is that you see nothing wrong with this, but I just want to make sure. If that is your answer then this is where we split.

(November 30, 2015 at 8:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't understand your argument about toe nails/skin/hair?

If all it takes to be considered a human being is to have human DNA then my toenails are human beings.

If you don't like that example, and you don't think the tumor good either, what about a parasitic worm?

Let's say I ate an apple and became host to a parasitic worm that entered my body through that apple. The whole reason it was in the apple was so that a host would come along and eat it and thus provide a body it could grow in, and it only requires my body for three months while it grows into an adult worm. Of course, for those three months there's the possibility that I could get unbearably nauseated, my blood pressure could be affected by the presence of this worm, I could become anemic by its presence in my body, it could give me lasting medical conditions like an eating disorder, it could affect how my organs function, or maybe I spend the three months in near perfect health and the worm exits my body one night by giving me some wicked food-poisoning symptoms that only last, like 12 hours.

Do I have the right to expunge that parasitic worm from my body or am I morally obligated to allow it to grow inside me without a choice? It's an entirely separate being from myself with separate DNA and its own life to live once it exits my body. Do I get a choice?

(November 30, 2015 at 8:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 30, 2015 at 8:41 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All cancer cells have the DNA of the animal carrying the tumor.

Exactly. It is not it's own, separate entity.

Neither is a fetus, once you consider the umbilical cord.

(November 30, 2015 at 8:59 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:

(November 30, 2015 at 8:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't understand your argument about toe nails/skin/hair?

If all it takes to be considered a human being is to have human DNA then my toenails are human beings.

If you don't like that example, and you don't think the tumor good either, what about a parasitic worm?

Let's say I ate an apple and became host to a parasitic worm that entered my body through that apple.  The whole reason it was in the apple was so that a host would come along and eat it and thus provide a body it could grow in, and it only requires my body for three months while it grows into an adult worm.  Of course, for those three months there's the possibility that I could get unbearably nauseated, my blood pressure could be affected by the presence of this worm, I could become anemic by its presence in my body, it could give me lasting medical conditions like an eating disorder, it could affect how my organs function, or maybe I spend the three months in near perfect health and the worm exits my body one night by giving me some wicked food-poisoning symptoms that only last, like 12 hours.

Do I have the right to expunge that parasitic worm from my body or am I morally obligated to allow it to grow inside me without a choice?  It's an entirely separate being from myself with separate DNA and its own life to live once it exits my body.  Do I get a choice?

But your toenails are not ALL your DNA lol. An abortion isn't just destroying part of that being's cells, it's destroying all of it. The whole thing. I'm sure fetuses shed their own cells too. Likewise, you're not going to get killed if you lose some of your cells through toe nail cutting, but if someone destroyed all your cells, you would die. 

Again, the circumstances and nature surrounding a parasite and an unborn human are what make all the difference to me.

CM: It's funny you should mention parasites. I was thinking that the fetus is also technically a parasite.

Some good news.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/h...vjNloRo6Zz

Quote:Northern Ireland’s abortion law is “incompatible with human rights”, the High Court in Belfast ruled on Monday, potentially allowing women access to terminations in cases of rape, incest, and fatal foetal abnormalities.

That's a really good start!

Although it comes back to how exactly rape can be proved, when the victim is scared into not resisting physically.

(November 30, 2015 at 9:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Again, the circumstances and nature surrounding a parasite and an unborn human are what make all the difference to me.

Are you're saying that you think it would be permissible for me to kill the parasite?

(November 30, 2015 at 9:37 pm)robvalue Wrote: CM: It's funny you should mention parasites. I was thinking that the fetus is also technically a parasite.

This is especially true if the mother has the RH negative factor. She actually needs a shot so that the fetus does not attack her body.

(November 30, 2015 at 11:54 pm)Judi Lynn Wrote: She actually needs a shot so that the fetus does not attack her body.