(December 6, 2015 at 6:20 am)Yeauxleaux Wrote: I also get tired of (some! jfc some, not all) Muslims giving a bigger shit that someone looked at them funny in the street than they do that 100 people were gunned down.

This is so accurate it's not even funny. I have a good friend who is Muslim. A very good friend. My husband and I flew all the way out to Pennsylvania for 2 days just to go to his wedding. 

Anyway, whenever we get into the topic of radical Islam (which is not very often at all), he immediately gets extremely defensive and starts rambling off about how CNN is reporting all this stuff and making Islam look bad and yadda yadda. And I'll be like... "like what? What did they do that made you guys look bad?" Him: "Well like the other day they had a Muslim on there they were interviewing and they asked him if he agreed with what Isis is doing. Like, why did they even ask?? Of course he doesn't agree! And they always report what is going on in the Middle East." 

This was a real conversation. It blows my mind that they are more outraged/concerned about white people "making them look bad" by reporting/addressing the problem, than they are about ISIS making them look bad by slaughtering children! 

I love my friend and don't hold anything against good Muslim people for being Muslim. But it does drive me crazy when they take this sort of attitude in the face of innocent people getting mass murdered.

(December 6, 2015 at 9:06 am)abaris Wrote:

(December 6, 2015 at 6:08 am)paulpablo Wrote: I think if Christian militias were coming into Europe or America and killing people shouting God is great then the media would report on it.

Which is the major problem these days. Killing a single Westerner is splashed over the frontpages. Killing thousands of brown people isn't newsworthy. It's safe to say that organisations such as Isil are killing at least a thousand times more fellow muslims than they are killing Westerners. But that of course does fly under the radar. They're so bad that even Al Quaeda declared war on them - and even if that seems a little bit ironic, it also points out why throwing all muslims under the same blanket is inherently stupid.

Also, to come back to what Irrational said. Have a look at the role of christian militias during the Lebanese civil war. It's as ugly as muslims extremism. That's why I always keep saying, the only thing preventing christian violence to be as abhorrent as muslim radicalism is a thin coat of society. Most christians simply live in relatively stable regions. But as soon as the same environment is created, all bets are off. Same goes for jews, obviously, which can be observed in certain regions of Israel. And yes, they too strive for their very own theocracy with their very own version of Sharia law. There are certain districts of Jerusalem being virtually occupied by jewish nutters. For the time being, the state fends them off, but they are a nuisance, according to Israeli news sources.

When you say the killing of westerners is splashed over "the front pages".  It's the western front pages.

It's pretty normal for newspapers to report to take priority of local news.  

If a gang of Muslims in Britain today all of a sudden began executing these other "brown people" who they considered to not be good enough Muslims, say for example on the streets of Liverpool, I can guarantee it would make front page news.

It's not necessarily the race of the people involved but the locality and culture and abnormality of the event which makes something newsworthy.

Say if Jay Z and Kanye West decided to do a simultaneous suicide it would get more news coverage than a truck full of lighter skinned brown Palestinian people blowing themselves up in a suicide attack, or Muslims killing eastern European white people.

It's culture, abnormality of the event, locality and the culture of the people involved having more of an impact than how dark or light the skin is, and locality is subjective to the location of wherever the reporters are based.

(December 6, 2015 at 1:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: "Well like the other day they had a Muslim on there they were interviewing and they asked him if he agreed with what Isis is doing. Like, why did they even ask?? Of course he doesn't agree! And they always report what is going on in the Middle East." 

And why shouldn't he? Do you remember anyone asking christians if they agreed with Brejvik, although he claimed to act as a christian warrior? Do your recall anyone asking christians if they agree with abortion clinic attacks? These questions are reserved for muslims and so he's rightfully outraged. Why should they be asked to distance themselves when the same question isn't asked in case of christian or jewish nutters?

It's a double standard, plain and simple.

Why did they even ask, is a very valid question.

(December 6, 2015 at 6:31 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 6, 2015 at 1:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: "Well like the other day they had a Muslim on there they were interviewing and they asked him if he agreed with what Isis is doing. Like, why did they even ask?? Of course he doesn't agree! And they always report what is going on in the Middle East." 

And why shouldn't he? Do you remember anyone asking christians if they agreed with Brejvik, although he claimed to act as a christian warrior? Do your recall anyone asking christians if they agree with abortion clinic attacks? These questions are reserved for muslims and so he's rightfully outraged. Why should they be asked to distance themselves when the same question isn't asked in case of christian or jewish nutters?

It's a double standard, plain and simple.

Why did they even ask, is a very valid question.

Because Christians are the majority here in the US, Abaris. We KNOW that killing innocent people is not Christian teaching. But there may be people here who don't know anything about Islam except for what they see on the news about them constantly blowing people up. So I see nothing with CNN having a Muslim on there to clarify to all the more ignorant people that, no, they are not all in support of that type of action.

(December 6, 2015 at 6:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 6, 2015 at 6:31 pm)abaris Wrote: And why shouldn't he? Do you remember anyone asking christians if they agreed with Brejvik, although he claimed to act as a christian warrior? Do your recall anyone asking christians if they agree with abortion clinic attacks? These questions are reserved for muslims and so he's rightfully outraged. Why should they be asked to distance themselves when the same question isn't asked in case of christian or jewish nutters?

It's a double standard, plain and simple.

Why did they even ask, is a very valid question.

Because Christians are the majority here in the US, Abaris. We KNOW that killing innocent people is not Christian teaching. But there may be people here who don't know anything about Islam except for what they see on the news about them constantly blowing people up. So I see nothing with CNN having a Muslim on there to clarify to all the more ignorant people that, no, they are not all in support of that type of action.

On the flip side, can't you see how your friend can get frustrated with everyone looking at him, or other non-radicalized Muslims, as spokespeople for the entire religion and culture?

Like, I'm disabled.  But I'm not the spokesperson for people in wheelchairs.  And whenever someone (well meaning or not) starts to treat me as a representative for other disabled people, I get pretty uncomfortable.  Because it's not my job to explain the actions and mentality of others who happen to share similar physical restrictions as me, I don't represent the totality of what living in a wheelchair encompasses, and I'd really rather be seen as a person instead of some sort of living symbol for a particular group of people.

Basically, CNN and other news agencies asking some random Muslim on the street "Do you approve of ISIS?" are engaging in the lowest form of 'journalism' because they're trying to make a lone individual account for all of the flaws in their culture and/or religion, flaws which they may be well aware of (not that CNN or any of the others would be interested in that).

Moreover, those kinds of targeted questions only serve to deepen the Us vs. Them mentality.  The moment you start treating a group of people as some exotic, unknowable Other is the moment you can strip away their humanity and treat them merely as obstacles to remove.  We cannot afford to fall into the trap of looking at Muslims in general as people we will never be able to understand, and ISIS in particular as monsters.  Because that strips away our ability to find common ground, which is necessary for peace.

The problem we're facing is one of ideology.  And while we certainly must kill as many ISIS as possible (and anyone else along those lines), we also must be aware of what makes people become radicalized and attempt to fight it.  Because radicalization is the symptom of larger, deeper problems, including but not limited to:

Poverty
Lack of education
Lack of opportunity
Religious fundamentalism
Remnants of sectarian conflict
Mental illness
etc.

Killing the people with the guns, bombs, and plans should be seen as merely the first step.  Otherwise, we'll just be embroiled in this kind of thing for generations, likely with it getting worse.

Islam doesn't kill people. Muslims kill people. Fuck Muslims.

If Islamic terrorism was really only caused by economic and political reasons, then people from the USA and UK wouldn't be leaving these prosperous nations to join them. Islam is indeed a driving factor in terrorism. Is it the only factor? No, but it's a significant one.

(December 4, 2015 at 4:48 pm)Mechaghostman2 Wrote: Why is it that when one criticizes Islam, and criticizes the extremists of Islam and points to their religion as being, in part, responsible for such behavior, that it is Atheists who will come in rushing to defend the religion? 

Many Atheists will be the first to point out the ills of Christianity, what it is doing to American culture and who it is oppressing. However, when someone points to Islam and the oppression that happens under Sharia Law, or the behaviors of those who follow the religion, the statistics saying close to 80% of western Muslims support putting you in prison for drawing a picture, many Atheists will call you a racist, a bigot, an Islamaphobe, and basically just shut down the conversation by spouting those accusations rather than actually addressing, or even acknowledging the criticisms. There's a massive double standard in much of the Atheist community about this right now, and I think it's time Atheists start to address them.

Inb4 not all Muslims, that is an irrelevant statement. There are enough Muslims behaving this way to cause a real problem, and just downplaying it or ignoring it won't make these problems go away. Yes there are millions of Muslims that just want to be left alone to subjugate their women in peace. There are even moderates that speak out against Terrorists, some even political leaders. This much is true.

Let us take a look at a rather moderate Muslim country, Turkey. It's technically secular and has many of the freedoms western countries have, technically. However, if you drink on Ramadan, you're likely to get the snot beaten out of you, as one of my friends from Turkey was along with his friends. The country in recent years has also started to be more religious in its policies. Banning cigarettes, taking away rights for gays, etc. If this is the greatest country that Muslims are capable of creating, I'm not impressed. Only about 30% of the country voted for a more secular leader. The majority support Sharia Law. The 30% that don't are the people in cities, educated by English schools. 

This is all information from a friend that was born and raised in Turkey. He's agnostic, doesn't like the word atheist (yeah, one of those) and so this might be all hearsay and anecdotal, but I tend to take experiences of people from such countries with as much credibility as statistics and etc., especially one as levelheaded and logical about the issue as this guy.

Inb4 you're a racist islamaphobe bigot, Islam isn't a race, it's an ideology. Something you can convert to is not a race, and stating objective facts is not bigotry. Islamaphobia is a word made by fascists used by cowards to manipulate morons.

Smart atheist who aren't politically-motivated do not defend Islam, we point out the fact that it is not only centered around a book which was written by barbarians as a model for violent worldwide domination and a barbaric society, but that millions of people today support its unfiltered teachings, with very few publicly condemning the practices of groups such as ISIS. Smart and honest atheists do not include asshats such as PZ Meyers.

Going to reefer to the Atheist Experience for this post

All long the lines of this Ray Comfort says why are atheists not attacking Islam
then to Atheists need to stop attacking Islam.

(December 6, 2015 at 8:56 pm)KUSA Wrote: Islam doesn't kill people. Muslims kill people. Fuck Muslims.

So do Christians and Jews and atheists. Moron.